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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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Current Law Students / Re: Transferring T4 to T1 w/ top %3
« on: February 18, 2015, 09:47:12 AM »
I somewhat disagree. The chances of transferring to Penn or Georgetown are pretty low, but Villanova/Temple etc seems realistic. Top 3% is very good, and neither of those schools are incredibly competitive in the first place. I know people who made similar transfers from So Cal T4s to Loyola, and they weren't even top 3%. More like top 10%.

I think the bigger issue is whether you have reason to believe that transferring is worth it. You could graduate near the top of your class from Widener, or (probably) middle of the pack from Temple. I'm not sure that a average student from Temple or Villanova is necessarily better off than a high ranked graduate from Widener. The schools you mentioned (with the exceptions of Penn and Georgetown) are not elite. Are their employment prospects really that much greater than Widener? I dunno, but I'd look into it. Personally, I wouldn't make a decision like this based on rankings alone.

Another option is that you may be able to leverage your ranking into greater scholarship aid. Graduating higher ranked and with little debt from Widener may be more advantageous in the long run than mid ranked (this happens to many transfers) and in debt from another school. Something to consider.

Sounds like you should contact LSAC and ask them directly.

Every school that I applied to required one application for the school, and then you also had to send in the LSAC report. Is that maybe what this school is requiring, that you submit the school's own application by June, but the LSAC report can follow?

That said, all the applications I submitted still required an LSAT score which was merely confirmed by the LSAC report later. Again, I'd call LSAC and maybe ask the law school for a deadline waiver if necessary.

Law School Admissions / Re: Very Confused, Interesting Scenerio
« on: February 09, 2015, 09:45:49 AM »
I don't think the withdrawals themselves will make much (if any) difference, but the time you spent at community college may lower your LSAC GPA a little. LSAC adjusts your GPA according to different factors, and because community college is considered "easier" than a university, it may affect your GPA. Even if it does, the effect would not be too great.

Forcible Hospitalization

I'm not 100% sure, but you may be required to report this to the state bar when you submit the Character & Fitness application. Assuming that the problem is taken care of and you don't have ongoing episodes of hospitalization, it probably won't be a problem. Nonetheless, you'll likely have to fully disclose and explain the situation. Lots of people are admitted to the bar who have mental health issues, but they want to make sure that the problem isn't going to adversely affect your future clients. Call the state bar and check with them first.


Do you mean that you actually have a 176, or you are just hopeful? If you don't have an actual LSAT score everything is speculative. Honestly, you really can't assume you'll score 176.

Study hard, take a prep course, and get a real score on the board. Until then, it's all pure speculation.

General Off-Topic Board / Mods, please help?!
« on: January 31, 2015, 09:32:08 AM »

Is there any way to stop the invasion? This site is being completely overrun.

Current Law Students / Re: How Serious Is My Situation?
« on: January 28, 2015, 10:06:43 AM »
I have a D average (1.4), but only because I had difficulty focusing on studying and exam taking.

A couple of points to address:

First, developing effective study and exam taking skills are absolutely crucial to law schools success. I'm not trying to be overly harsh, but when you say "only because I had difficulty" etc etc, it makes me think you're underestimating the problem.

You need to figure out what the obstacle is (anxiety, time pressure, distractions?) and come up with a plan to overcome it. Your law school probably has academic support programs. Look into them, they can be very helpful.

Until you get this figured out there isn't much point in worrying about internships or employment. You need to get a handle on this before the next round of exams and definitely before the bar exam.

Will I be able to get past this semester for internships and employment, if I do well?

This is tougher to answer because it depends on what you mean by "good employment" as well as your personal skills (networking ability, interpersonal skills, etc). If you're talking about big firms, prestigious federal positions and judicial clerkships, then yes, it's going to be a problem. Those jobs are very competitive. If you're talking about small firms, maybe local government offices, then it will be less of an issue as long as it is only one semester of low grades.

As far as post grad employment, one semester of low grades is not going to prevent you from getting a job. However, consistently low grades can be a problem.

As Citylaw said, lots of people stumble during their first semester. I know people who were disappointed with their first year grades and who went on to graduate and are now practicing lawyers. The factor they all had in common was that they went into overdrive to figure out and fix the problem .

Good Luck in your studies!

Online Law Schools / Re: What is the cheapest online law school?
« on: January 28, 2015, 09:46:41 AM »
Yes, I think there was  post on the boards a few months ago about MASL closing down.

I'm not sure what the cheapest online law school is, but it probably depends on whether or not the student wants to take the bar. There are some non-bar qualifying degrees out there that are very cheap, but there's not much point unless you just want it for self enrichment.

As far as bar-qualifying degrees, I think that the California correspondence schools are much cheaper than Concord.

Law School Admissions / Re: 2.39 GPA 151 LSAT Should I even try?
« on: January 27, 2015, 11:28:00 AM »
With a 2.39/151 you can probably get in somewhere, but there are a couple of things to consider.

1) Make sure that whatever obstacles held you back in college are resolved before you start law school. It's far more demanding than undergrad, and you won't be successful if you have major distractions or problems. The amount of work that would have landed you an "A" in undergrad might get you a barely passing C- in law school.
2) The schools you mentioned are almost certainly out unless you retake the LSAT and score significantly higher. This means that you will most likely be attending a lower ranked school (think Touro, Roger Williams, someplace in that range).

That's fine as long as it meshes with your goals and you understand the potential limitations. Big firms and federal positions may be VERY difficult to obtain (even as an IP lawyer), but solo practice, small firms and local government offices may be options.

Just think realistically and objectively about your goals, and let that guide the process. Also consider geography. At a lower ranked school most of your job opportunities will be local (at least initially), so be prepared to stay in the immediate area.

Good Luck!

I would only advise you to spend some serious time researching what each career path actually entails. You're trying to decide between two very different academic programs, which will result in very different careers. Think bout what your long term goals are and what you want out of life and a career.

Practicing law and working in business management are each going to result in different stresses, challenges, and rewards. Look into the job market for each, be realistic, and let your goals steer you.

As far as where to go, without an LSAT score everything is speculative. Places like NYU and Columbia are probably out with a 3.3 GPA unless you score off the charts on the LSAT. Assuming however, that you score similar to your practice scores NY-area schools like Fordham, St. John's, Yeshiva, Seton Hall, and plenty of others would be within reach.

Honestly though, just focus on the LSAT right now. It is such a huge factor that until you have an actual score on the board there isn't much point in focusing on specific schools. Your life experience and military service are good "soft factors", but the LSAT and GPA will dominate the admissions process.

One of the reasons that Canadians come to the U.S. to attend law school is that Canada only has about a dozen law schools, and they are all pretty competitive to get into. Someone with say, a 3.0/155 would probably not get into any Canadian law school, but they can get into a number of American schools.

After graduation they can return to the province in which they intend to practice, take additional classes in Canadian law, and qualify to article after about a year and a half. So yes, it is a longer route but it can work out. One of my best friends from law school went to law school in California and qualified for the British Columbia bar this way.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: A WARNING about Phoenix School of Law
« on: January 13, 2015, 10:43:57 AM »
I know this is way late, but can we please talk about how Phoenix School of Law (now Arizona Summit...) is a private, for-profit school that costs at least $40,000 a year to attend, when right in the same city is Arizona State, a public school with much cheaper tuition and a much, much better reputation?

So basically, only people who can't get into ASU go to this reject law school. There's really no other reason you would attend this school instead of ASU unless you got a full-ride scholarship.

Seriously, PSL accepts EVERYONE - even people who get like, 140 on their LSAT! Being a lawyer is really difficult. I got a pretty good LSAT score and find myself decently intelligent, and seriously, it is really really difficult to practice law. You have to be pretty darn smart. So good luck to all the 140ers in their law careers.

I know, this post is mean, but I really don't think this school should exist.

Well, consider this: plenty of people at the T14 probably consider ASU to be a "reject" school, and wouldn't give an ASU grad the time of day. How many ASU students' first choice was the University of Arizona, but they didn't get accepted? I have no doubt that ASU is a fine school, but my point is that it's all relative.

Law schools like Arizona Summit exist for the reason you stated: not everyone is going to get accepted to ASU, or can quit their job for three years, or wants to work at a big firm. For those people a school like Arizona Summit might make perfect sense.

As for the cost, I think pretty much all law schools are overpriced and Arizona Summit's high tuition is comparable to other law schools. It's a legitimate criticism.

Seriously, PSL accepts EVERYONE - even people who get like, 140 on their LSAT! Being a lawyer is really difficult. I got a pretty good LSAT score and find myself decently intelligent, and seriously, it is really really difficult to practice law. You have to be pretty darn smart. So good luck to all the 140ers in their law careers.

And yet Arizona Summit's bar pass rate and employment statistics are roughly comparable to ASU. Yes, ASU is better in both categories, but not dramatically so. Regardless of what someone gets on the LSAT, if they can pass the bar they are probably smart enough to be a lawyer.

My guess is that ASU and Arizona Summit are probably filling different niches. ASU (and UA) are probably supplying most of the big firm/federal/DA etc. jobs, and Arizona Summit is probably producing small firm lawyers, PDs, solo practitioners, etc.

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