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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:50:41 AM »
I already politely requested all my educational records, and the school outright refused to release them to me.

Is that the whole story? You sent a polite request for you records, and in flagrant violation of federal law the school refused to comply based on personal animosity? What did their response actually say?

Do you owe unpaid tuition?

Is there a restraining order in effect which requires third party contacts?

I get the feeling that there are some missing pieces here. If indeed the school refused to turn over your records based on nothing more than bad feelings, then you need to talk to a lawyer.

BTW, the school can't have you charged or arrested based on nothing more than a letter that says "I would like to request my transcripts." That's not harassment. They can call the police, who will determine whether or not a threat/harassment occurred. If the communication is nothing more than a letter requesting transcripts, I don't see how that could be reasonably interpreted as harassment UNLESS there is a restraining order in place or the police have already advised you not to contact the school. Is that the case?

At this point, I think you should talk to a lawyer. Perhaps they can make the request on your behalf.


I worked at an entertainment law firm for a little while. Here are some things to consider:

1) Entertainment law firms are not talent agencies. Many agents are indeed lawyers, but the day to day aspects of the job are quite different. "Entertainment law" is really just a mixture of contract and employment law. As an entertainment lawyer, your day will revolve around contract reviews, contract negotiations, and all of the other incredibly boring stuff that civil attorneys do. You won't be hangin' with celebs by the pool at Chateau Marmont. You'll be sitting in an office feverishly responding to a motion for summary judgment.

2) If your image of entertainment law is in any way shaped by "Entourage", drop that image immediately. 

3) Don't go to law school unless you are prepared to be a lawyer, period. Not an entertainment lawyer, not an IP lawyer, but a lawyer. There is a very high probability that you will not be an entertainment or IP lawyer. Those jobs are few and far between, and the competition is stiff.

Ask yourself "Will I be alright with drafting wills and defending DUIs in the valley if I don't get hired in my desired field?"

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 20, 2015, 11:44:40 AM »
Ok. It's your application, do as you please.

Keep this in mind throughout the readmission/application process:
You are asking for a favor. In fact, you're asking for a pretty damn big favor that no one is obligated to provide. Your language and actions should always reflect that you are aware of this.

The admissions people at the new law school are going to be skeptical of any application involving disciplinary issues. Given the unusual circumstances of your case, any indication of hostility or ongoing problems is likely to seem amplified. Trust me, they don't want to hear you blame your old school for anything.

I'm not sure that you understand that some of verbage you use comes off as defensive, even though it may be unintended. You've asked for and received objective feedback by non-interested parties. If you want to take it to heart, great. If not, that's cool too. 

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 20, 2015, 09:48:07 AM »
Some notes on the addendum:

Paragraph 1:
I'd delete it. Loki is correct, it sounds hostile. I know that you disagree, but as an outsider looking in it sounds hostile. It sounds like there is an ongoing argument with your old school, and that's not what you want to lead with.

Paragraphs 2 & 3:
These are OK. They may ask for specific details.

Paragraph 4:
Way too long. This needs to be more concise. The info about support groups etc is repeated in P5, so I would shorten this by focusing on medical treatment.

Paragraph 5:
Too long, but you're on the right track with summing it all up and focusing on the positive steps you've taken.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: No Pre-Law Advisor-help?
« on: May 20, 2015, 09:38:33 AM »
Most colleges have very little in the way of meaningful prelaw advising. My prelaw advisor wasn't even a lawyer, he was a history prof. Here's the "advice" I got: "Look at your LSAT and GPA then apply to schools in your range." Wow, thanks.

Your GPA is already set, so the best thing you can do now is focus on the LSAT. The LSAT is a HUGE piece of the puzzle, probably more important than your GPA. Once you have an actual LSAT score you'll be able to get a good picture of where you have a shot at getting in. Then you need to think about location and career goals. I would check back here once you have a score (or at least a few timed practice scores).

If you want to post your GPA and intended location, that will give at least some indication as to what kind of LSAT score you may need.

As far as mental health issues, it is not an automatic barrier to law school or the bar by any means. But, it really depends on your specific situation and how it has affected your life. Without knowing more it's impossible to say.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 19, 2015, 12:36:02 PM »
If I contact them, even politely, they will accuse me of harassment and file criminal charges against me.  Believe me, it's that serious.  I am walking on thin ice.  I can't afford to have any more blemishes on my C&F record.  Therefore, best to have a third party (treatment provider, parent) intervene on my behalf.

I can understand your concerns. If things were left on such a bad note that ANY contact is likely to be interpreted as threatening, then having a third party mediator is not a bad idea. 

Typically it would be difficult for a school to claim harassment simply because someone is seeking to access an approved path to readmission after complying with the terms of their medical leave. (Assuming the communications were cordial and appropriate). I think this is sort of what Loki was referencing. If there was a TRO, RO, no contact order, etc, then that's a different story.

If your situation is so tense that even cordial contact for the purposes of readmission is going to result in someone calling the police, then I think you have an uphill battle regardless.

I really do wish you the best of luck. It may be that your school simply wants more time to pass without incident since the last episode was only a year ago.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 18, 2015, 05:58:57 PM »
I can understand that.

So, if I understand correctly, you would have to be readmitted to your old law school then you can apply to do your last year as a visiting student somewhere else.

If that's the case, I wonder if you could let them know right off the bat that you're planning on finishing somewhere else. That might make the admin a little less skittish. Maybe that was the idea your parents were going to talk to them about?

On the other hand, the admin may be concerned that if they readmit you and you don't get into another school, then they'll have to take you back. I wonder if you could somehow negotiate a conditional admission, solely for the purposes of trying to get visiting student status at another school?

Also, (I'm not trying to be negative here, but this is a major issue) are you sure that you can actually get into another school as a visiting student with the disciplinary action on your record? You might want to look into that before starting the whole readmission process.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 18, 2015, 10:11:44 AM »
The admin may not even be able to discuss your situation with your parents due to privacy requirements. (A waiver may be required). There may also be privacy issues involving the other students. Just remember that not everything the school does is to "punish" you, so to speak. They are also concerned with protecting other students who may feel threatened. These kinds of issues are taken VERY seriously nowadays.

You seem to harbor significant animosity for the admin. Maybe it's totally justified, I don't know. Do you feel that you're ready to return to law school?

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 16, 2015, 12:40:11 PM »
Yes, my mistake.

As far as readmission/ADA "reasonable accommodations", I don't know. The school will be balancing your rights against their obligation to provide safety for other students. Perhaps finishing at another school renders the point moot?

I strongly believe that the key is to get healthy FIRST. Not only will you be in a better position to demonstrate changed circumstances, but you will probably do better on a personal level, too. I wish all the luck in the world with your continued recovery. People with such issues DO finish law school, pass the bar, and get admitted. Take care of your most immediate needs first, and everything else will follow (even if it takes a little longer than anticipated).

One last point: if I were an administrator at your law school, I would be wary of speaking to your parents without you being present. I would want to see that you were at least capable of handling a conference on your own before I'd consider readmission. I would expect that from any adult. This may be something to discuss with your lawyer.


Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 15, 2015, 05:13:35 PM »
Nice to have the site up and running again.

Hi Opal. Loki has done a very good job of addressing the major issues, but I just wanted to mention a few things.

First, I'm not familiar with PA's C&F process, but I imagine it's not too different from CA (my home state). The key to C&F issues is full, unequivocal disclosure. The Bar is often quite forgiving of many issues, but NOT of a lack of candor. I was always told that if in doubt, fully disclose.

Your situation IS going to attract the attention of the bar. You will have to disclose the disciplinary actions, and they will likely investigate. Admission to the bar will likely rest on two major factors: 1) your honesty, candor, and willingness to cooperate, and 2) your ability to demonstrate recovery. At least here in CA, it is up to the applicant to demonstrate that they presently possess good moral character. In other words, the burden is on you.

Part of the Bar's job is to protect the public. Thus, they are probably going to want to see that this problem is behind you rather than ongoing. You're going to have to establish that, probably by showing a clean track record for a decent period of time accompanied by affidavits from doctors attesting to your progress. BTW, don't take my word as anything more than my non-professional opinion. This is just based on what I remember from law school.

I would think that at this point any talk of an ADA lawsuit is premature, to say the least. Even if the Bar did turn you down, I'm not sure how successful that route would be as opposed to waiting a couple years, showing continued progress, and reapplying. Typically, people who are denied the C&F are not permanently denied. They can reapply and show changed circumstances. Again, just my opinion, but I wouldn't want to get into an adversarial relationship with the Bar if I could avoid it. It often doesn't turn out well.

As far as getting into another school to finish out your JD, I don't know. I mean, honestly, having a disciplinary action on your record is not a small issue. My guess is that most schools would want to see changed circumstances before admitting you.

Loki gave great advice regarding retaining an attorney. If you decide to go this route, pay attention to the "chemistry". It really does help when you have a natural, positive relationship with someone who you're going to have to spill your guts to.

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