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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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I'm not aware of any movement per se, but as Citylaw said there are a few states that might allow a non-ABA grad to sit for the bar.

So, why don't more states allow it? I think it's due to several factors.

Part of a state bar's job is to make sure that the market doesn't get flooded and prices stay high. Is it fair or just? I'm not sure, I have mixed feelings. Nonetheless, it's a factor.

The ABA is a dinosaur
Even their rules for fixed facility accreditation are behind the times.

Performance of online schools
This is the big one. There is a lot of skepticism out there regarding the quality of online education in general, not just law schools. Most employers at competitive, reputable companies pretty much roll their eyes at online BAs, MBAs, etc. The same goes for JDs. Most lawyers (especially outside of CA) are VERY skeptical of online degrees.

Some of the skepticism is unfair snobbery, and some of it is legit. The fact is, online schools have high attrition and low bar pass rates. That's not a good combo. It means that either the admissions are too easy, the academic rigor is too low, or both.

I really don't think there will be any serious move towards either ABA accredited online education or towards more states' allowing online degrees until that changes. There is the example of William Mitchell School of Law, but that's fairly unique.

In CA it's a little different because we've always done things are own way. Although even in CA, I do see that most employers draw a big distinction between non-ABA (but state bar accredited) and unaccredited online schools. Most CA lawyers know enough smart, practicing non-ABA grads that the stigma is sort of dissipated.

As far as states like OR and NV, I just don't think there is any internal pressure from the state bar members to amend the rules and expand the educational requirements. I fact, most would probably be against it. Until that changes, I don't think outside lobbying will be sufficient to change the rules.

Online Law Schools / Re: Baby bar test scores
« on: May 26, 2015, 08:58:39 AM »
The California state bar website lists FYLSX results by year, but I guess you'd still have to compile them yourself to track long term comparisons.

Yeah, even if you don't need to take the bar you would still need to fill out an application for admission and probably a C&F application. Or you might have to appear in court and motion for admission. At least that's how it works in most states.

Aren't there states that will allow someone to apply for admission based on MBE scores alone? I had a friend from law school who didn't pass the CA bar, but was going to apply to (I think) Minnesota because he had a sufficiently high MBE. I thought you had to be already admitted in another state, but he said no. I don't know if that's accurate or not. 

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 04:08:07 PM »
Yeah, I call bull.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 01:53:54 PM »
Don't you need the records in order to apply as a visiting student to another school?

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:16:54 AM »
Ok, it's good that you have a lawyer. Be completely honest with your lawyer and let them handle it.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 10:56:52 AM »
I emailed and called the Dean's office politely numerous times back in February 2015 and the Dean outright refused to send me the records that I am entitled to and furthermore told me not to contact his office again.

"Numerous times."

The first time you requested your records, what did the Dean actually say? What reason did the Dean provide? I seriously doubt if no reason at all was provided. If the Dean provided a legitimate reason, then numerous subsequent contacts may have been considered harassing.

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 10:50:41 AM »
I already politely requested all my educational records, and the school outright refused to release them to me.

Is that the whole story? You sent a polite request for you records, and in flagrant violation of federal law the school refused to comply based on personal animosity? What did their response actually say?

Do you owe unpaid tuition?

Is there a restraining order in effect which requires third party contacts?

I get the feeling that there are some missing pieces here. If indeed the school refused to turn over your records based on nothing more than bad feelings, then you need to talk to a lawyer.

BTW, the school can't have you charged or arrested based on nothing more than a letter that says "I would like to request my transcripts." That's not harassment. They can call the police, who will determine whether or not a threat/harassment occurred. If the communication is nothing more than a letter requesting transcripts, I don't see how that could be reasonably interpreted as harassment UNLESS there is a restraining order in place or the police have already advised you not to contact the school. Is that the case?

At this point, I think you should talk to a lawyer. Perhaps they can make the request on your behalf.


I worked at an entertainment law firm for a little while. Here are some things to consider:

1) Entertainment law firms are not talent agencies. Many agents are indeed lawyers, but the day to day aspects of the job are quite different. "Entertainment law" is really just a mixture of contract and employment law. As an entertainment lawyer, your day will revolve around contract reviews, contract negotiations, and all of the other incredibly boring stuff that civil attorneys do. You won't be hangin' with celebs by the pool at Chateau Marmont. You'll be sitting in an office feverishly responding to a motion for summary judgment.

2) If your image of entertainment law is in any way shaped by "Entourage", drop that image immediately. 

3) Don't go to law school unless you are prepared to be a lawyer, period. Not an entertainment lawyer, not an IP lawyer, but a lawyer. There is a very high probability that you will not be an entertainment or IP lawyer. Those jobs are few and far between, and the competition is stiff.

Ask yourself "Will I be alright with drafting wills and defending DUIs in the valley if I don't get hired in my desired field?"

Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 20, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »
Ok. It's your application, do as you please.

Keep this in mind throughout the readmission/application process:
You are asking for a favor. In fact, you're asking for a pretty damn big favor that no one is obligated to provide. Your language and actions should always reflect that you are aware of this.

The admissions people at the new law school are going to be skeptical of any application involving disciplinary issues. Given the unusual circumstances of your case, any indication of hostility or ongoing problems is likely to seem amplified. Trust me, they don't want to hear you blame your old school for anything.

I'm not sure that you understand that some of verbage you use comes off as defensive, even though it may be unintended. You've asked for and received objective feedback by non-interested parties. If you want to take it to heart, great. If not, that's cool too. 

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