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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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211
Online Law Schools / Re: Graduation
« on: May 26, 2015, 01:20:10 PM »
I find it highly unlikely anyone will go to jail for putting a school they attended on an application.

It may not be recognized by a state bar, but there is no way anyone is going to jail for applying to a job.

Agreed. The only way I could imagine someone getting into trouble would be if they claimed to be a lawyer and practiced law without a license. Just putting the degree on your resume would not be illegal unless you did it with an intent to deceive. 

212
Online Law Schools / Re: What is the cheapest online law school?
« on: May 26, 2015, 12:15:55 PM »
I think one of the important things to consider about Oak Brook and NWCU is that they have consistently better pass rates than other DL schools. As you stated, some places will post a 50-100% pass rate but they only have one or two takers. The sample size is just too small to make any conclusions. I seem to remember that Oak Brook and NWCU usually have at least 10-20 takers and their pass rates are consistent (low compared to ABA, but better than average for DL).

As far as some other schools, here are two things I'd be VERY wary of:

1) Schools with consistently low pass rates (one good year does not make a trend).

2) Schools who have NO bar takers at all for several years. You can check the Calbar site to see the yearly results.

213
I'm not aware of any movement per se, but as Citylaw said there are a few states that might allow a non-ABA grad to sit for the bar.

So, why don't more states allow it? I think it's due to several factors.

Protectionism
Part of a state bar's job is to make sure that the market doesn't get flooded and prices stay high. Is it fair or just? I'm not sure, I have mixed feelings. Nonetheless, it's a factor.

The ABA is a dinosaur
Even their rules for fixed facility accreditation are behind the times.

Performance of online schools
This is the big one. There is a lot of skepticism out there regarding the quality of online education in general, not just law schools. Most employers at competitive, reputable companies pretty much roll their eyes at online BAs, MBAs, etc. The same goes for JDs. Most lawyers (especially outside of CA) are VERY skeptical of online degrees.

Some of the skepticism is unfair snobbery, and some of it is legit. The fact is, online schools have high attrition and low bar pass rates. That's not a good combo. It means that either the admissions are too easy, the academic rigor is too low, or both.

I really don't think there will be any serious move towards either ABA accredited online education or towards more states' allowing online degrees until that changes. There is the example of William Mitchell School of Law, but that's fairly unique.

In CA it's a little different because we've always done things are own way. Although even in CA, I do see that most employers draw a big distinction between non-ABA (but state bar accredited) and unaccredited online schools. Most CA lawyers know enough smart, practicing non-ABA grads that the stigma is sort of dissipated.

As far as states like OR and NV, I just don't think there is any internal pressure from the state bar members to amend the rules and expand the educational requirements. I fact, most would probably be against it. Until that changes, I don't think outside lobbying will be sufficient to change the rules.


214
Online Law Schools / Re: Baby bar test scores
« on: May 26, 2015, 09:58:39 AM »
The California state bar website lists FYLSX results by year, but I guess you'd still have to compile them yourself to track long term comparisons.

215
Yeah, even if you don't need to take the bar you would still need to fill out an application for admission and probably a C&F application. Or you might have to appear in court and motion for admission. At least that's how it works in most states.

Aren't there states that will allow someone to apply for admission based on MBE scores alone? I had a friend from law school who didn't pass the CA bar, but was going to apply to (I think) Minnesota because he had a sufficiently high MBE. I thought you had to be already admitted in another state, but he said no. I don't know if that's accurate or not. 

216
Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 05:08:07 PM »
Yeah, I call bull.

217
Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 02:53:54 PM »
Don't you need the records in order to apply as a visiting student to another school?

218
Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 12:16:54 PM »
Ok, it's good that you have a lawyer. Be completely honest with your lawyer and let them handle it.

219
Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:56:52 AM »
I emailed and called the Dean's office politely numerous times back in February 2015 and the Dean outright refused to send me the records that I am entitled to and furthermore told me not to contact his office again.

"Numerous times."

The first time you requested your records, what did the Dean actually say? What reason did the Dean provide? I seriously doubt if no reason at all was provided. If the Dean provided a legitimate reason, then numerous subsequent contacts may have been considered harassing.

220
Current Law Students / Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:50:41 AM »
I already politely requested all my educational records, and the school outright refused to release them to me.

Is that the whole story? You sent a polite request for you records, and in flagrant violation of federal law the school refused to comply based on personal animosity? What did their response actually say?

Do you owe unpaid tuition?

Is there a restraining order in effect which requires third party contacts?

I get the feeling that there are some missing pieces here. If indeed the school refused to turn over your records based on nothing more than bad feelings, then you need to talk to a lawyer.

BTW, the school can't have you charged or arrested based on nothing more than a letter that says "I would like to request my transcripts." That's not harassment. They can call the police, who will determine whether or not a threat/harassment occurred. If the communication is nothing more than a letter requesting transcripts, I don't see how that could be reasonably interpreted as harassment UNLESS there is a restraining order in place or the police have already advised you not to contact the school. Is that the case?

At this point, I think you should talk to a lawyer. Perhaps they can make the request on your behalf.

 

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