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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT Abroad
« on: October 02, 2014, 01:07:21 PM »
There are many threads here which discuss the impact of "soft factors" such as graduate degrees, the OP may want to read them.

It boils down to this:

A graduate degree is not useless in terms of law school admission, but it's not very helpful either.

A graduate degree may give the applicant a small boost, especially if it is in a hard science and/or from an elite university. Thus, an M.S. in Biochem from Caltech may help but an M.A. in English from Unknown State U will not.

Graduate studies are very different from law school, and one is not preparation for the other. The fact that someone completes an M.A. does not mean they are more likely to do well in Property than someone who hasn't.

LSAT and GPA however, do tend to be reliable indicators of law school aptitude.

In the scenario that the OP has described, both applicants are so close numerically that they would have very similar chances of admission. In that case, an M.A. might help. The majority of admission decisions are, as Groundhog stated, going to be made pretty quickly based on numbers. If the M.A. holder is a few LSAT points below the non-M.A. applicant, that soft factor is not going to overcome the lower LSAT score.

I understand this is frustrating, but when you get to law school you will see that your M.A. is of little use in terms of studying the law. That's just the way it is. 

Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Touro College vs. Novus
« on: October 02, 2014, 12:45:35 PM »
Just curious, how did Touro establish standing? Because former Novus students applied to Touro? I can see how the former students would meet the requirements for class certification, but not Touro.

Either way, good fr them. I hope they win and that the state bars crack down on this nonsense.   

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Studying Law Abroad
« on: September 26, 2014, 02:41:03 PM »
Maintain FL -- thanks for your words of advice. I have done quite a bit of research at this point and am (unfortunately) very confident that I would have to start over with a JD, especially in Florida. The very best that you can do here is find a university that will award you some credits from your past studies and shave a maximum of a year off the JD study time. Thus, my principal concerns are finding working with an LLB/LLM.

Is it possible that FL would allow you sit for the bar exam if you obtained an LL.M from a ABA school? Or do they actually require the JD?
Either way, it's a couple of years of your life, but I think you can at least complete an ABA LL.M online which would allow you to work during that time and minimize debt.

As far as finding work in the U.S. with a German LL.B, I think it would be tough. Firms that practice international might be interested, but they'll likely want someone who is admitted to the bar as well.

Just think about your long term goals, be realistic in your expectations, and let that guide your decision making.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Studying Law Abroad
« on: September 26, 2014, 11:55:54 AM »
I see "partner" and assume you mean same sex partner. Doesn't Germany have a HORRIBLE track record when it comes to that? I'd factor that in.

Germany is quite progressive on this issue.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Studying Law Abroad
« on: September 26, 2014, 11:54:58 AM »
If your goal is to practice in the U.S., then you should go to law school in the U.S. If your goal is to practice in FL specifically, you may want to attend a FL law school.
A German law degree will not be sufficient to sit for the bar in most states. They will require you to obtain an LL.M (from an ABA school) first. Even CA and NY don't really have true reciprocity with any European jurisdictions, meaning that even if your degree is acceptable you still have to take the bar exam.

In CA (which is more open to foreign degrees than other states) your foreign degree will be evaluated to determine whether an LL.M is required. Usually, only common law degrees (UK, Ireland, Canada, etc) are exempt from the LL.M requirement. Some other states may not even accept a German degree with an LL.M, and will require a JD. The German civil law system is so different from the U.S. system that the degree is of very limited use in terms of understanding U.S. law.

A German law degree will not prepare you for any U.S. bar exam, so you'd basically be starting from scratch. The pass rate for foreign educated lawyers is very low.

If you plan to stay in Germany after law school or attend law school in the U.S. and then move to Germany, then you need to look into immigration policies. Most EU countries are quite strict on immigration. It's not easy to get a work permit, especially if you are seen as competing for a job that a citizen might desire (like lawyer). Usually, you have to get sponsored by an employer, which means they have to really really want you.

Something else to consider is language. Is your German good enough to get through a university course in law?

I don't know any JDs working in Europe, although I'm sure they exist. I'm not sure if most EU countries would accept a JD as sufficient to practice, with the possible exception of the UK. The systems are very, very different.

Your best bet is to contact individual countries in which you would like to live and ask about their policies. You may be able to gain admission to the local bar, or as you said, work as a consultant. Also contact any states here in the U.S. in which you are interested and ask them about their policies on foreign degrees. The best information is that which you get straight from the source, so go there first.

Good Luck with your decision!

The notice states that the communication may contain privileged information for the intended recipient, and that disclosure "by others" is prohibited.

Since Jonlevy was the intended recipient, I think this means he is free to disclose it's contents. Others cannot disclose it without his permission. Read the notice more carefully.

The letter doesn't contain any confidential or privileged information.

Is Novus one these places that sets you up with a CA lawyer, then provides some study materials so that you can attempt the "study with a lawyer" route? I wouldn't pay five cents for that nonsense.

Since the degree itself is apparently insufficient to sit for the bar, the prospective attorney will have to fulfill the legal education requirement some other way. Sounds like a waste of time and money with little chance of success. Caveat emptor!

Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Mid-Atlantic School of Law
« on: September 24, 2014, 12:28:12 PM »
I agree.

It seems like the only gatekeeper activity is the granting or denial of accreditation. But if you don't care about accreditation anyway, so what?

Presumably, you could start a correspondence "law school" in your garage even though you're not a lawyer, never get a single student to pass any state bar exam, and continue to operate with no oversight. Amazing.

Germany has limited the use of terms such as "university" to combat scam diplomas. We could do the same, as the use of terms like "law school" is highly misleading in some circumstances. This seems like a basic consumer fraud issue, but I guess there just isn't any interest in enforcing it.   

L.L.M. Board / Re: Applying to an LLM with a Misdemeanor
« on: September 22, 2014, 09:45:17 PM »
Yes, rules definitely vary state to state. My point was just that I doubt that "lots" of law students have felony convictions. A few, yes. And of those few some will get admitted and some won't depending on the nature of the felony, how much time has passed, etc. My understanding is that most states will pretty much automatically reject a felon, period.

The reason I brought up CA's disbarment proceedings is to illustrate that even in one of the most liberal jurisdictions felonies are taken very seriously. If they're going to disbar a lawyer who gets a felony, then I doubt they'll admit a new member with a felony absent extenuating circumstances.

L.L.M. Board / Re: Applying to an LLM with a Misdemeanor
« on: September 21, 2014, 09:37:47 PM »
LOTS of JD students have felonies who later get licensed just fine as well.

I don't think lots of JD students have felonies, and then get licensed. Misdemeanors , yes, but not felonies. Even in CA (which is pretty lax) a felony conviction results in disbarment proceedings.

If someone has a felony they better check with their state bar before spending three years and $100k on law school.

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