I think you need to provide a little more info, like your GPA/LSAT, goals, where you want to live, etc.
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Messages - Maintain FL 350
Maintain you are amazing. You say you don't know anything about these law schools, but you comment any way.
I said that there are certain considerations which are applicable to ANY law student, such as cost, location and future goals. Would you actually disagree?
Let me first say that I don't live in KY, and I'm not personally familiar with the market or any of these schools.
That said, there are some basic things which apply to everybody.
First, the actual education you receive will be nearly identical at any of these schools. You'll learn the same rules, study the same cases, and have a similar academic experience at just about any ABA law school. That's the point of ABA accreditation; to create a predictable set of standards.
Second, think about what you want to do after law school. UK may have a stronger local reputation than the others, and that might allow greater mobility (at least within KY). On the other hand, maybe NKU is in your hometown and you plan on practicing there. In that case, the ability to stay local is important and should be considered.
Last, think about cost. You likely won't be courted by big firms in LA and NYC coming from these schools, and you need to consider the likely starting income and the debt you will accrue. If one school is going to be significantly cheaper than the others, that would be a MAJOR consideration for me.
« on: March 11, 2014, 04:09:41 PM »
As Miami88 has already pointed out, your GPA/LSAT is pure speculation at this point. I'm not trying to be negative, but the reality is that most people do NOT achieve the high GPA and high LSAT that they think they will.
I've never seen any data which suggests a correlation between LSAT scores and SAT scores. They are very, very different tests. I mean, it makes sense that someone smart enough to score very well on the SAT would possibly do well on the LSAT too, but I'm suspicious of any point for point correlations.
At this early stage the best thing you can do is focus on getting the highest GPA possible. Your actual major won't make too much difference (unless it's in a hard science) as long as you have good grades. A history major might get a slight bump over, say, an art major, but most liberal arts majors will be viewed as roughly equivalent.
As far as the future of law, it depends on what you want to do. If your goal is to be an international policy development lawyer at the U.N., good luck. If your goal is to be a successful partner at a midsized firm, however, that's entirely possible. Think about your long term goals, be realistic, and let that guide your decision making process.
Hope that helps! Good Luck!
Let me first echo Citylaw's comment and thank Law Dean for posting here. It's a very helpful perspective to have.
A couple of points regarding MCL's bar pass rate:
0/11 is a poor performance, I don't think anyone disputes that. One bad performance, however, is not a trend. If you look at MCL's bar pass rates for the last five years it's much better. This cohort seems to be an outlier, and is not indicative of overall performance.
Now, if this continues then there is obviously a problem. But at this point there is no reason to suspect that it will continue. Past performance, in fact, suggests the opposite.
The size of the CBE law school cohorts is so small (often 10-20 students) that I'm not sure you can draw too many conclusions, either positive or negative. One individual student can affect the pass rate by 5-10%!
If a school has consistently low or high pass rates, that probably does mean something. But an individual cohort which performs below average (as is the case here) is not necessarily indicative of anything other than the specific issues faced by that specific cohort.
Which leads to my last point...
Part Time Programs
I went to law school part time, and I can tell you from experience that it is a brutal process. Trying to prepare for the toughest bar exam in the nation while working, or taking care of a family, or both is very difficult. Schools like MCL are taking students who have much more going on than the average 22 year old law student and are trying to prepare them for the California bar.
If anything, I'm impressed by that fact that MCL routinely gets 50-60% of their students to pass on the first attempt! Remember, Tier 1 out of state schools often have a CA pass rate of only 20-30%.
I would say the same for lower tiered CA ABA schools, too. Personally, I'm more impressed with a 65-75% pass rate on the CA bar than an 80% pass rate on a much easier bar exam. Again, lower tier CA schools often beat the pants off much higher ranked out of state Tier 1 schools.
All of these factors, especially the difficulty of the CA bar, have to be taken into account when evaluating bar pass rates.
I was told it most definitely matters. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks.
I think it depends on what state you're in. Some will pay more attention to this issue than others. There was a recent Ohio case where a guy was declined admission to the bar because he had something like $300k in debt, but I think that's unusual.
In most states I think what they're looking for is any indication that you've acted in a fraudulent manner or that you are irresponsible. For example, running up huge bills and then simply walking away or having multiple bankruptcies could raise red flags. In most cases I think bad credit alone is not going to be much of an issue, but you may have to explain it and it could hold up your application.
I have been told that some states like Florida do pay more attention to this than others. In California I seem to remember that the Moral Character application only required a credit report of you were currently behind on any bills.
Be sure to check with your state bar, though. They are the only source you should trust on these matters.
Yes, you must turn in all transcripts from all college level institutions attended even if it was for only one individual class. If you do not, it will likely be viewed as an ethical breach. You could be rejected from law schools or even prohibited from taking the bar exam. DO NOT risk it. Turn in all your transcripts.
I never had any law school ask for my HS transcripts. I think what Miami88 is referring to are college level classes taken in HS.
« on: March 04, 2014, 12:50:40 PM »
I want to practice family law. I got a special certification in family law and am now VOLUNTEERING for around 50 hours a week at a family law firm. Obviously, I'm not waiting for things to be handed to me, but rather am working as hard as I can (and trying to learn as much as I can).
Without trying to sound condescending or critical, there are some aspects to your approach that strike me as counterproductive.
If you have a JD and have passed the bar you should not be volunteering 50 hours a week. Maybe volunteering 10-20 hours per week is OK to gain experience and learn the law, but the rest of your time should be spent trying to get a practice going.
Even if you get one client per month, or only bill 10 hours per month, you'd be better off than giving away your time for free. I would really focus my attention on how the firm gets clients, how referrals work, etc.
I understand that it's tough to find clients and to navigate the system without guidance, but you are a lawyer. You know how to learn the law, and you can talk to others who have started solo practices. Spending 50 hours a week volunteering is crazy, in my opinion.
You may need to branch out. Take DUI cases, worker's comp cases, social security administration cases, and family law cases. As a new lawyer you can't afford to be too picky, and it's all good experience. Talk to solo practitioners and see how they did it.
I don't doubt that you have the motivation and intelligence to succeed, but your approach does seem flawed. You're spending inordinate amounts of time on a path that will likely not produce results.
Lastly, consider moving if necessary. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Law is a business like any other and you aren't guaranteed a job. You will have to make your own luck.
BTW, some of the CBE schools in southern California are Glendale College of Law, University of West Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, Ventura, and there's one in Long Beach but I can't remember it's name. Some have decent bar pass rates and good connections to the local bar, others don't. Check them out individually.
There are also a few ABA schools (in addition to the ones you mentioned) which might accept someone with a 2.8 GPA, as long as it was accompanied by a decent LSAT score. These would include La Verne, Western State, and (in San Diego) Thomas Jefferson and Cal Western.