Law School Discussion

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Maintain FL 350

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 ... 98
Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 07, 2016, 10:27:21 AM »
Meaning what, exactly?

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:02:33 PM »
Part time programs are four years, including summers.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« on: February 03, 2016, 10:04:23 AM »
Hillary Clinton IS the subject of a criminal FBI investigation regarding mishandling and gross negligence regarding classified information.

See? This is why I hate the interwebs. It makes me have to defend people that I don't even particularly like, such as Hillary Clinton.

Cinnamon: there is an FBI investigation into how classified documents were handled at the State Dept, Clinton's emails have been looked at as part of that investigation, but Clinton is NOT the subject of the investigation.

This may sound like I'm over-parsing my words, but that's how law works! If you're NOT the subject of the investigation your chances of being indicted are nil unless the focus of the investigation switches to you.

Could that happen here? Possibly, but other than Tom DeLay claiming that he has "sources" who warn of an impending indictment, there is no evidence to support the claim.

I know that you want very badly for Clinton to be the subject of the investigation and to be indicted, but wishing won't make it happen. So far, they have found no indictable offense.

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 02, 2016, 10:35:26 AM »
I started law school when I was about thirty. I had a wife, kid, mortgage, etc. I did the four year part-time evening thing. Here are my thoughts, hopefully you will find them useful.

Time Commitment

I assume that you will be working during law school. Working and going to law school is a GRIND. Law school is far more demanding than undergrad. Most people I know who had an MA/MBA felt that law school was more demanding than their grad program, too.

There is really nothing part time about a part time JD. Instead of five classes per semester you will take three or four plus summer school, all while working. My first semester I took Contracts, Torts, Legal Writing/Research. The next semester Criminal Law was added. I would go straight from work to law school, classes from 6-9:30, (sometimes later) M-TH. Every lunch break, weekend and holidays were spent reading and briefing and preparing for exams.

If you allow yourself to fall behind in law school it is very difficult to catch up. The volume of information that you will be required to ingest, and the speed with which it comes at you, requires constant preparation. 

I don't know if you have a family, but for four years you will have to make significant compromises with family time. Even if you're single, your social life will be on hiatus at least for the first two years. 


I have no idea what your financial situation is, but in your forties you should be looking to avoid any new debt.

I would suggest that you seriously consider making your decision based on scholarships. If you do well on the LSAT and can attend a local school for very cheap as opposed to a big name school for $150K, I'd take the cheaper route.

If you don't do well on the LSAT, retake. Minimizing debt should be a top priority.


I always tell prospective law students to be realistic in their expectations. Law is more boring than you think, and you will almost certainly not get a great, interesting, high paying job fresh out of law school. Unless you graduate from Harvard, you're going to have to slog through some crap in order to get experience.

It sounds like you want to be a solo practitioner, which is great. You already have corporate/business experience which puts you ahead of the average 25 year old new grad. But, even so, you're going to have to learn labor/employment law somewhere. It is very difficult to go solo straight out of law school. Law school teaches you the law in an academic manner, but doesn't really prepare you to practice. The people I know who went straight into solo practice and were successful were already paralegals, law office managers, that sort of thing. The already knew the ropes. You will need to learn the ropes from someone else, so be prepared to work for a firm or govt office for a while.

Which brings me to my next point: hiring sucks right now. Research your local market, be realistic about the options.


Are you too old? No, but be sure to look at ALL of the attendant facts (not just your subjective hopes and desires), and make an informed decision.

Job Search / Re: Re: Testing Period
« on: February 01, 2016, 04:47:24 PM »
I agree with Loki, I've never heard of a probationary period for a summer internship. I mean, the whole thing only lasts a couple of months anyway.

I agree, it is not an automatic block to becoming an attorney but it will require you to answer a bunch of questions. How you answer is very, very important.

In CA this would slow down your bar application. You have to provide an addendum explaining the whole sordid affair, they would take extra time investigating, and you may be asked to attend an committee review. But, assuming that you have otherwise kept your nose clean, you'd probably be admitted.

Each state has it's own rules. Some are stricter, some are easier. Check with your state bar.

My question is how likely would it be to be re-admitted in a situation like this, if I had a external circumstances which contributed to my failure the first time around, how should I present these on the application, and would I be eligible to apply to other law schools as well?

There are a few things to address here.

Right off the bat, you're going to have a hard time getting admitted. Getting suspended for cheating puts a big red flag on your application.

The likelihood of your being readmitted to any school is based on many variables. How you did gradewise while you were in law school, the seriousness of the academic dishonesty, and what you've done since then. Can you somehow demonstrate that your circumstances have changed?

In my opinion, unless you can clearly identify the problems that lead you to plagiarize AND convincingly demonstrate that those problems are behind you, it's going to be tough. I mean, why admit someone who you think will repeat the same behaviors?

You mentioned "external circumstances". I'm telling you right now that nobody, not the law schools and definitely not the bar association, want to hear lame excuses for cheating. It will not help you. You need to own up to your actions if you want a chance at being a lawyer.

You also need to check with your state's bar regarding the Character and Fitness application. Getting suspended for cheating is a big deal, and even if you are readmitted to law school you will definitely have to answer a lot of questions from the bar. This will hold up your admission, at the least. Make sure that you can actually get admitted to the bar before spending the money on a JD. If and when you apply to law schools and the bar it is imperative that you be absolutely 100% honest. You must disclose your cheating with total candor.

Job Search / Re: Re: Testing Period
« on: January 28, 2016, 05:28:39 PM »
I assume you're talking about a probationary period?

It's simply a specified period during which the firm is trying you out, seeing if you're a good fit. During the probationary period they can let you go if it's not going to work. 

Also, do you mean as a lawyer, or as a law student? The expectations will vary accordingly.

As far as expectations, they should be pretty clear on what experience you have and what your capabilities are based on the interview and resume. They'll probably ask you stuff like "Ever written an MSJ?", so there should be no surprises.

The level of guidance and help you'll get varies (unfortunately). I had a great experience as an intern during law school. The attorneys were awesome about really teaching me something. I got to write MSJs, make appearances, lots of good stuff. My wife had the opposite experience. She was stuck in an office and told to do stuff with almost no guidance, "Go figure it out." It just depends.

By the time you are a lawyer (even a brand new one working at your first job) you will be expected to perform most basic legal tasks with little or no supervision. When something is more complicated, you will seek advice from other lawyers. Again, the level of help you'll get varies widely. Some offices are great and have good training, others have a sink or swim attitude.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who would you hire?
« on: January 28, 2016, 05:15:08 PM »
But here's the salient difference- you're assuming that the average HLS grad isn't a hard worker. That's the opposite type of bias.

No, no. Quite the opposite. I have no doubt that the average HLS student is a very hard worker. I don't think anyone can earn the numeric qualifications to get into HLS without being a hard worker.

And I definitely understand your point regarding competition. A Harvard student is going to be graded in comparison to other very high caliber students.

But, I do wonder. If you are T14 student who doesn't care about law review, or gunning for some prestigious clerkship, is it really more difficult to get Cs at HLS than at the University of Kansas? I don't know, maybe it is. Maybe the competition is so talented that even getting a C requires far more work and intellectual acumen.

I know someone who graduated from Harvard and now teaches law. I'll ask what he thinks.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who would you hire?
« on: January 28, 2016, 02:44:06 PM »
Yeah, I essentially agree. I would never dismiss the accomplishment of getting accepted to a T14. These are the superstars among superstars. Anyone can have a bad day and get a 150, but nobody accidently gets 175.

Here's what I'm getting at:

I have no doubt that the "average" Harvard student is anything but average. I understand that they are very, very smart. But, as I get further into my career I see that lawyers who are smart enough + VERY hardworking are typically more productive employees than those who are VERY smart + average work ethic.

I've worked with T14 grads who sucked and non-ABA grads who kicked ass. Some T14 grads I've known were very smart but were not necessarily good employees. They were entitled, bored, felt that some work was beneath them, complained a lot. Of course, I've worked with other T14 grads who were excellent, dedicated, and put most of us to shame. It depends on the individual, I suppose.

So if the issue is who would make a better employee, I tend to think that the one who has shown exceptional motivation and discipline would be my choice, regardless of pedigree. I've never met a top 10 percenter from any school who wasn't insanely motivated.

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 ... 98