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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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Law School Admissions / Re: Am I making a mistake with my law school plan?
« on: February 26, 2016, 12:46:32 PM »
I don't really know enough about your situation to offer advice, but here's the thing:

You're what, 19 or 20? There is no huge rush. You have time to decide, time to enjoy college, time to play sports, etc.

170 is a great LSAT score (BTW, is this an actual LSAT score or a prep score?). Getting free tuition at your current school would be great, but with a 170 why not apply to a few dream schools and see what happens? Most won't allow you to enter until you've actually graduated, but again what's the rush?

Also, (and I really mean this) take some time to research the legal market and what lawyers actually do on a day to day basis. You won't be so eager to get started!


Don't matriculate at any law school (ABA, CBE, whatever) that you are not prepared to graduate from. You will likely not be able to transfer.

Secondly, Duncanjp's post offers good insight. The CBE schools are, I believe, best suited for working adults who want to change careers. I know plenty of successful attorneys who went this route. They are not partners at O'Melveny, but they are successful practicing lawyers.

I think the CBE route does probably require a greater degree of self-motivation and hustle. You can't necessarily rely on a pedigree, so you've got to make it happen yourself. Most 25 year olds can't do that, which is why I think it's a model best suited for those with more experience.

Take some time to research your local legal market. See what's available, what the competition is like, and who gets hired. Find out what it takes to start a solo practice, talk to graduates of that school. Be realistic and objective in your research.

ok, what is your lsat score.........its a factor in this

Stop being silly. It's completely irrelevant and you know it. He's a licensed attorney in CA. Are you?

No, in CA we have lots of successful CBE grads working as DAs, PDs, Main St lawyers, etc. I meet them all the time, it's not that unusual. I don't know if you're in CA or not, but I think people from other states don't quite get the CBE thing. They equate it with unaccredited/online, etc, which it's not.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« on: February 20, 2016, 06:17:41 PM »
So, where are all those posters who "dont-care-for-Hillary" but think she is going to win the democratic primary and lmfao........she is absolutely going to be president??????

BTW, I've never said she was "absolutely going to be president". Maybe someone else did. That depends on who the Republicans nominate. If it's a nut like Trump, then yeah, she'll win. If it's Rubio, maybe not.

If you think Hillary has skeletons in her closet, can you even imagine the crap that they've already got on Trump and are holding back for later? Who knows what that has in his closet.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« on: February 20, 2016, 06:13:04 PM »
Well, she just won SC by 20 points and is ahead in every single subsequent primary. Nevada is the only one that's close, and even there she's still ahead. She has 350-something superdelegates, Sanders has two.

Nothing in politics is certain, but if we're looking at likely scenarios based on EVIDENCE, not hopes, then she's the most likely candidate. Can you provide a single piece of evidence to contradict anything I've just said? Polls which show her losing subsequent primaries? Superdelegates switching sides? No? Then everything you're saying is just idle banter, no facts. 

I want to know if attending a CBE law school is my only way back.

No, it's not the only way back. You can reapply to ABA schools after a certain amount of time (can't remember how long). Whether or not you get in is dependent on a lot of variables. Obviously, it will be harder to get back in.

Here's the thing, though: it won't be any easier at a CBE school. They pretty much follow the same curriculum as any ABA school. It's not an "easier" path, necessarily. Unless you can figure out where you went wrong the first time, and have a plan in place to overcome that problem and succeed, I'm not sure that going to a CBE makes any sense.

I'm not sure if CBE schools have a required waiting period if you're applying following an academic dismissal. Contact them to find out.

My plan is to never move out of California, I would not mind a district attorney position, nor would I mind opening my own small private practice.

It's good that you don't want to leave CA, as the CBE degree is not as portable.

DA/PD/City Attorney, and pretty much all other govt jobs are VERY competitive right now. I worked at a govt office for a while, and they were flooded with applicants. It's difficult to get a DA gig even if you go to respected ABA school, especially in big cities. People from CBE schools do get hired as DAs, but it's rare unless they have connections or previous experience. Most of the CBE govt lawyers I've met were hired a long time ago when those jobs were less competitive.

Opening your own solo practice is a more realistic (and still difficult) proposition.

Are there any success stories about people graduating from CBE schools? In other words is there any hope?

Sure, there are plenty of successful CBE grads, but you need to be realistic about the job opportunities. You will have fewer options, it will be harder to get internships, etc.

I'm not a snob when it comes to CBE. I think they offer a great option for the right kind of student. I've known some really good CBE lawyers. In my opinion, CBE is best suited for someone who already has a career and wants to broaden into law. If that person already has contacts and solid job experience, and knows how to hustle, then CBE may be fine.

For someone who is young and inexperienced, and is going to need to rely on their pedigree more, CBE is probably not the best choice.

Be realistic about your options, let that guide the decisions. 

When you say I'll need to explain my poor performance, will that be through the application or will I need to add an addendum?

Probably an addendum. The law school applications will ask if you've ever been on academic probation or dismissed, but to elaborate further and explain the circumstances you will probably need an addendum.

You will have to explain it again on your bar application.

Also would you suggest that I be blunt and try to explain why I did poorly or am I better off focusing more on proving that I've got it together now?

Both, I think. They're going to want to know what happened, and why it won't happen again. The other thing is you've got to be absolutely 100% honest. This is important. You don't want your law school applications and bar apps to contradict each other. Be honest, own up to your mistakes, don't make lame excuses (nobody cares), and show that you've changed.

It will matter, and you'll definitely have to explain it in your applications to both law school and the state bar, but it is NOT an automatic barrier to entry. They will want to see that your academic problems are behind you, however, since law school is about a hundred times more demanding that college. Make sure that you have figured out the problem and have a new plan in place before you drop lots of time and money on law school.

The single biggest factors will be your LSAT and cumulative GPA, however. The degree to which this issue will matter is going to fluctuate based on A) your numbers, and B) the level of admissions competition at each school.

At this point all you can really do is get the highest possible GPA and LSAT, which will help to mitigate the academic dismissal.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Chosing a School
« on: February 09, 2016, 05:02:34 PM »
Lastly, I would like to live and work in the mid-atlantic, actually more like Philly even though there's probably to much competition to land there from PSU. Realistically what placement look like from Penn state to Philly or the rest of PA, NJ, DC, MD

Just by researching scholarship retention rates you're already ahead of most 0Ls, and that's good.

If you really want to be in the Mid-Atlantic/Philly area, then I would definitely be looking at law schools out there. Chapman, Seattle, etc are not going to be very helpful with landing a job in Philly.

One question: have you ever lived back East? It's really, really different from CA. The winters suck. It's fun for about a week, and then digging your car out of snow and slogging through frozen mud loses it's charm. Seriously, this is something to consider if you're from OC. If you go to law school in PA, it will be difficult to return to CA.

Let's say you get a job in PA, then decide a couple of years later that you want to be around your family. This means that will have to take the CA bar and start looking for a job with no local experience. This may not seem like a big deal now, but it is. Really think this one through.

As far as Penn State's placement in Philly, I don't know. I would imagine that it's OK but not great. Philly is pretty well stocked with Temple, Penn, and Villanova students. Rutgers and Widener are not too far away. A large part of landing an internship and later a job is your own moxie. If you are a motivated go getter you'll probably be alright. If you're relying on your school's career services office and/or the school's name, you're going to be disappointed. I would check with PSU and see how many students end up interning and working in Philly.

If you're really sold on Philly, check out Drexel's scholarship retention rates and see what Temple offers. Being in Philly would be a huge bonus.

If you are open to other states like MD, NJ, DC etc, then I would apply to schools there, too. See what happens. Even if it means waiting a year, it may be worth it if you can score an awesome offer.

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