Law School Discussion

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Topics - financialandtaxguy

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Hi Everybody,

I would like to suggest petitioning the ABA for better treatment of non-ABA, online schools!  What I have done is to go to their website and leave thoughtful (non-threatening), and professional comments about why the ABA needs to come of age.  Here is some points to consider when leaving your comments:

1.  Non-ABA law school graduates should be able to take the Bar Exam, since the Bar Exam is a weeding out process anyway.
2.  Traditional law school graduates have not proven to improve ethics in the law profession.
3.  We have graduates of online law schools passing the California Bar, the hardest in our country, passing the first attempt.
4.  Many of us are already professionals in other fields, and the ABA should not stand in our way to improve our professional development.
5.  There is very little correlation between the high cost of a legal education and success in the legal profession.
6.  To minimize the value of an online legal education is to imply that professors and instructors of online legal education, who have passed the Bar Exams in various states, are not qualified to teach even with their ABA accredited education.
7.  Our choice of legal education method is to be able to exercise the free enterprise of education i.e. the ABA should not hinder our future careers by their monopoly through unfair regulation.
8.  In our technology age, we have the capability of having a professional education online, at a lower cost. 
9.  Most lawyers do their more complicated than law school legal education (CLE), through on the job training, online education, and seminars.

You can add any other insightful comments to this list to help us all get better recognition.  The ABA website for comments is: http://www.americanbar.org/utility/about_the_aba/contact.html  , and on the Subject box choose "General Questions and Comments" in the drop down menu.  They will send you an acknowledgment via your email.

For the Cause of Justice,

Ron

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SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT THESE BOOKS HAVE BEEN DISPOSED OF!  NO LONGER AVAILABLE!  THANKS!


I have 2009/2010 University of London, First Year Law Books For Sale!  Just a reminder, if you are already a student of the University of London, External Degree Program, you get these books free with your tuition.  These are for other law students who just want these books for their library, unless you are needing them for legal courses taken at other UK schools which don't provide them!  Make me an offer to include shipping, will only ship within USA!  Email me at:  rpbfinancial at yahoo dot com.

"Core Statutes on Contract, Tort and Restitution"  Graham Stephenson, Palgrave Macmillan, 2009.  (2 - 4 pages of underlining)
"Core Statutes on Public Law and Human Rights"  Rhona Smith, Palgrave Macmillan, 2009.
"Core Statutes on Criminal Law"  Kate Cook, Mark James, & Richard Lee, Palgrave Macmillan, 2009.  (2 - 5 pages of underlining)
"Smith and Hogan Criminal Law" 12th Edition, David Ormerod, Oxford University Press, 2008.  (Very few underlines, maybe 1 page)
"Contract Law"  8th Edition, Ewan McKendrick, Palgrave Macmillan, 2009.  (Very few underlines, maybe 1 - 3 pages)
"Constitutional & Administrative Law" 7th Edition, Hilaire Barnett, Routledge-Cavendish, 2009.  (3 - 6 pages of underlining)
"The Politics of the Common Law" Adam Geary, Wayne Morrison and Robert Jago, Routledge-Cavendish, 2009.
"Learning Legal Rules" 6th Edition, James Holland and Julian Webb, Oxford University Press, 2006.
"Public Law" Barnett and Diamantides, University of London External System, 2007.  (Writing throughout)
"Common Law Reasoning and Institutions" Morrison and Geary, University of London External System, 2007.  (Writing throughout)
"Elements of the Law of Contract" MacMillan and Stone, University of London External System, 2009.  (Writing throughout)
"Criminal Law" Baird, Fionda, and Luckham, University of London External System, 2007.  (Writing throughout)
"Elements of the Law of Contract Study Pack" University of London External System, 2009.  (This is an abstract of legal books and articles referred to from course textbooks)
"Common Law Reasoning and Institutions Study Pack" University of London External System, 2007.  (This is an abstract of legal books and articles referred to from course textbooks)  (Some writing in first chapter)
"Public Law Study Pack" University of London External System, 2007.  (This is an abstract of legal books and articles referred to from course textbooks)  (Some writing throughout)
"Criminal Law Study Pack" University of London External System, 2006.  (This is an abstract of legal books and articles referred to from course textbooks)  (Some writing throughout)

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Here we go again!  Last time I posted about a TJSL law grad who sued TJSL for misleading employment statistics.  Now two Large Law Schools have been named in a Class Action Law Suit, namely Thomas Cooley and New York Law School, for misleading graduate employment statistics.  Some of us online/distance law students have been saying for many years that brick and mortar law schools are overrated and overpriced with very little post graduate tangible benefits in return.  I just recently talked with a young lady who recently graduated from Ave Maria Law School, who decided to stay working as a Social Worker, after graduating and passing the CA Bar, because it pays better than what she would get as a new law school graduate. 

You can read all the scoop at this link http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202510793554 

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Here's another England based Law School offering an online LLM program, no need for a JD or LLB for entry.  Their tuition is almost half the cost of Univ. of Liverpool, at about $11,000 - $12,000 US Dollars for the entire program.  You can also do a 15 months accelerated version also.  They do mention an "Induction Weekend," held in Leicester, England, for the kickoff of the school year in September, and they do not mention if that is mandatory to attend or not.  Follow this link http://www.informaglobalevents.com/appdata/downloads/business-law-with-an-international-focus-master-of-laws-llm-distance-learning-course-2011-from-de-montfort-university-dmu//KW1040_-_Business_Law_by_Distance_Learning_2011.pdf

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This professor is very good in explaining Intentional Torts and Negligence for writing exam essays.  He's very good at helping analyze with proper application of the rule of law.  There are 14 videos I think available on the subject.  It's free on youtube and here is the link http://www.youtube.com/user/mooredan#p/u/13/8edhGTHmuRY

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If you've read the requirements for online/distance learning law students, you know that we have to take and pass the Baby Bar here in California after your first year, and most of the online/distance learning schools are going to require you pass the Baby Bar before you can proceed to finish off the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years of law school. 

We know the Baby Bar can be a big obstacle for some of us, as it has been for me.  However, for those of you who have not started your first year of online/distance law school, you can use a little strategy by taking your first year in a traditional ABA approved law school, and then transfer to an online/distance learning law school in California, and you will be exempt from taking the Baby Bar!  Using this strategy, you will only have to pay the high cost of law school for one year at a traditional brick & mortar law school, and then transfer to an online program to finish up law school, and save yourself a ton of money, and escape the Baby Bar exam!

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Well, I just found another new online law school in the UK - Robert Gordon University/Aberdeen Business School.  Looks like they just started offering the LLB program online and reasonably priced at approximately $3900.00 per year.  You will need a Bachelor's Degree in specific majors as a pre-requisite.  I like their assessment of course work a little better than the Univ. of London and Northumbria.  They are also flexible as to what pace you want to study, their website says 2 to 4 years for completion. 

Remember, the reason why I post these non-USA schools is because you can qualify to take the Bar exam in some of the States in the USA if you have a qualified law degree from another Common Law country.  You can check out the other post for the link on Bar Exam requirements that passaroa25 posted titled "Comprehensive Guide to Bar Admission Requirements."  Ok, here is the link http://www4.rgu.ac.uk/abs/postgraduate/page.cfm?pge=85107


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Hi Everybody,

There was an interesting article written by the National Inflation Association regarding the cost of college education.  They give a good perspective on how colleges have hyper-inflated tuition etc...  Most of us have read, heard, or argued about the cost of a legal education these days.  We on this forum have promoted and encouraged online/distance learning methods in particular.  I personally believe that distance/online learning law schools are better in cost, content, and methodology.  I have a business background, and I have most of the time advised younger students, even my own children (I have eight), that colleges are businesses that exist at your expense, and now also have some sort of agenda/ideology attached.

If you are still in the brick and mortar mode of thinking in regards to a law school education, please read this article and read what others have posted regarding post law school employment and income statistics.

Read the full article here http://inflation.us/collegesdeceivingmythshoaxes.html

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I thought it was very interesting that the University of Liverpool (England), does not require a JD or LLB to enter their LLM program.  I talked to a representative for the program, and she told me that a four year degree is required with a certain amount of work experience.  You can check them out at this link http://www.uol.ohecampus.com/index.php?mod=dcp&act=navigationindex&navigationid=3509

The cost from what I understand for the full LLM program is around $21,000 and takes two to two and half years to complete online.  You can also contact Allison Yau for more information at 877-256-1937, ext. 7214.

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Hi Fellow Online/Distance Law Students and Grads,

Read an excerpt from Calbar newsletter i.e. "ejournal" regarding a lawsuit brought against Thomas Jefferson School of Law (below in quotations).  For me it reiterates the fact that traditional brick & mortar law school tuition rates are ridiculously high and many students get into a lot of debt and false hopes in return.  The online/distance law school mode is revolutionizing legal education back to reasonableness  in cost, content, and teaching methods. 

"Anna Alaburda has brought the ivory tower discussion about law school transparency to the real world. More and more institutions and people -- the ABA, U.S. News & World Report, Sen. Barbara Boxer -- have spoken about the need for more detailed figures from law schools regarding the employment records of their graduates. But Alaburda, a 2008 honors graduate of Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego who passed the bar and can't find a job, has filed suit against her alma mater."

Here's the link for the full article http://calbar.org/newsletters/lawstudents/html/2011-06_alaburda.html

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