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Messages - financialandtaxguy

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1
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Mid-Atlantic School of Law
« on: January 21, 2013, 03:44:13 PM »
Hi Folks,

Don't miss the issue here!  Those of us, who are already professionals law related fields e.g. Insurance Professionals, Real Estate Professionals, Estate Planners, Financial Planners, Registered Investment Advisers, and Tax professionals to name a few, we know that a lot of what we learned was not just academics but from "on the job," and good mentors.  Many of us learn to look up law, when we need to know the strict law, and regulated law. 

My comments about using Novus or MASL, is to advocate the learning structure given, not necessarily the non-existing prestige.  I've been in seminars and learning environments where non-attorney Estate Planning professionals conducting the seminars, danced circles around lawyers, and oh by the way, there were lawyers in the classroom who humbly came to learn from a non-lawyer.  All this to say, most professionals know we can learn many things from our own research, especially in this age of the internet, and from good mentorship. 

Novus or MASL will at the very least give you good legal content and structure, but in the present mind-set of the ABA, will not give you a leg up on getting a license.  Use MASL as an exam prep tool, in my opinion anyway.  I gave links in another posting to recorded Michigan Supreme Court oral arguments and the European Court oral arguments, in which you can learn courtroom etiquette and style.  Visiting your local courthouse and sitting in on actual court cases is also a good learning experience.

Thanks for all your comments!

Ron

2
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Mid-Atlantic School of Law
« on: January 14, 2013, 09:02:53 PM »
Hi Everybody,

Let's get back on topic.  I think about this program as an exam prep review course, while you pursue a J.D. on other registered online law schools, and use it as if it were a Baby Bar exam prep course" General Bar exam prep course, or refresher course alongside your other course! 

Meaning, if they are using Gilbert Outlines anyway, this program is like taking a bar review course.  If it costs the same or less than a bar review course, just do it, to pass the Baby Bar first, then complete your regular registered online law program after you pass the Baby Bar.  Also, then finish the MASL program as a Bar Review Course, after you get your J.D. from the registered online law school, and as you head for the General Bar Exam.

What if you can no longer afford to study at registered online law school, after you take MASL and use it as a Baby Bar exam prep course?  Then MASL may be a good last resort to finish an unrecognized J.D. program, as the cost is very low.  Then when you are able to get back to a registered online law school, you are ahead of the game!

I'm a little weak with my explanations, but what do you think of that idea?

3
Hello Again,

You all are making good points!  I just don't feel like we should stop petitioning them on this subject.  The ABA and the states need to know we are still here and not going away.  As for me, I plan on being persistent.  I liken this monopoly they have akin to injustice, and undue oppression of the many of us who are striving ahead with our careers. 

Can you believe it, even England will allow exemption from certain pre-law education requirements if you can prove you have enough professional experience in certain fields.  What we gained in the American Revolution from England has been lost to big government and socialist-like licensing laws.  Now, England leads the way in Free Enterprise of Online Legal Education by showing flexibility of access to a legal career, which we once had in America.

If we are the underdog, which we are, then let's keep the cause going and be proud of the legacy we leave behind.  Even if we don't win, there is great satisfaction in knowing we stood for a worthy cause against injustice from the very people who are to promote justice.

All the Best,

Ron

4
Hi Everybody,

I would like to suggest petitioning the ABA for better treatment of non-ABA, online schools!  What I have done is to go to their website and leave thoughtful (non-threatening), and professional comments about why the ABA needs to come of age.  Here is some points to consider when leaving your comments:

1.  Non-ABA law school graduates should be able to take the Bar Exam, since the Bar Exam is a weeding out process anyway.
2.  Traditional law school graduates have not proven to improve ethics in the law profession.
3.  We have graduates of online law schools passing the California Bar, the hardest in our country, passing the first attempt.
4.  Many of us are already professionals in other fields, and the ABA should not stand in our way to improve our professional development.
5.  There is very little correlation between the high cost of a legal education and success in the legal profession.
6.  To minimize the value of an online legal education is to imply that professors and instructors of online legal education, who have passed the Bar Exams in various states, are not qualified to teach even with their ABA accredited education.
7.  Our choice of legal education method is to be able to exercise the free enterprise of education i.e. the ABA should not hinder our future careers by their monopoly through unfair regulation.
8.  In our technology age, we have the capability of having a professional education online, at a lower cost. 
9.  Most lawyers do their more complicated than law school legal education (CLE), through on the job training, online education, and seminars.

You can add any other insightful comments to this list to help us all get better recognition.  The ABA website for comments is: http://www.americanbar.org/utility/about_the_aba/contact.html  , and on the Subject box choose "General Questions and Comments" in the drop down menu.  They will send you an acknowledgment via your email.

For the Cause of Justice,

Ron

5

In your experience, do most of the students at Concord plan on becoming solo practitioners? If not, does Concord help its students out with placement, or help you get in touch with alumni? Just curious. My own school had a pretty abyssmal career services office, we were pretty much left on our own.

I doubt any online school could do much in the way of job placement since its graduates are usually going to be disqualified from most public employment with non ABA degrees.  Online students are going to be solo or two person firm practitioners by default.

Just want to refresh this post reminding readers to look up the post I made several months ago where I gave an example of a friend of mine who went to distance law school Oakbrook College of Law, passed the Baby Bar first time, passed the General Bar first time, and then a couple of years later after experience with a non-profit legal advocacy organization, got hired as a District Attorney in Tulare County, California.

6
Hi Everybody,

Just wanted to remind you all that I started this topic only to make us all aware of the fact that we can escape the hassle of the baby bar in CA by spending the money to go to an ABA accredited law school for 1L, and then continue on with online legal education in a law school that is registered with the Committee of Bar Examiners in CA. 

The baby bar can slow you down, like it has done for me, and at age 52, I am watching how quickly the years (and my mind) are going by.  So, if you want to save time, and money, just go to a ABA law school for one year, pass, and then move on to the lower cost CA registered online law schools.  If it's going to cost you just as much to do online as attending a traditional law school, then maybe go to the traditional law school.

Only you can determine the pros and cons of online law school vs. traditional law school e.g. time flexibility, work and family obligations, prestige requirements, your age, stage in career, etc...

This information is not intended for non-California jurisdictions.

Best Regards,

Ron

7
Hi Everybody,

Time for me to step back into the conversation.  A little bit of an update, Northumbria now only starts their online LLB program in September of every year.  Some thing else that has changed in the LLB programs in England is that most of the UK Law Schools now have increased their willingness to take students with Bachelors degrees into a "Senior Status" or "Graduate Entry" status LLB program.  This means the required number of years to complete the LLB is shorter.

If you want to see how California treats Foreign LLB's or other Foreign Law Degrees, go to this link on the California Bar website http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Education/LegalEducation/ForeignEducation.aspx

All the Best,

Ron

8
If you get into and attend an ABA-approved law school, it seems like it would be a huge waste to then transfer to an online law school. You'd unnecessarily limiting your post-graduate options: you'd have fewer opportunities and fewer places where you could practice.

True, but like I said, this strategy is for those who want to save money and avoid the Baby Bar i.e. take and pass your first year at an ABA school, then transfer to an online law school.  But yes, what you are saying should be strongly considered regarding post graduate consequences.  For guys like me, already in a profession, this is not an issue.

9
Keep trying kiddo!  I'm in the same boat, and my memory skills are fading fast, but I will attempt my second try this October.  This failed exam is no reflection on the skills and abilities you already excel in, it's just a bump on the road, and at times I think it unfair that Calbar has put this extra burden on us, but we keep moving on!

10
Major Corporations hire people with law degrees with an international flair to work in contract negotiations, international tax, and international dispute resolution.  Usually, they don't really care from which school you got your LLM.

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