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Messages - loki13

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I know that in a few, specific, cases it can be a *small* advantange.

At BC, you will here references to double and triple eagles.
Double eagles- grads of BC and BC law.
Triple eagles- BC high, BC, BC law.

Not the advantage it was 30 years ago, but it does provide you some networking opportunities & possible alum job connections.

For state schools, if you're planning on going into state politics, it can help having a base of StateU/StateU Law.

If you're an Ivy Leaguer, no firm will deny you because you've done a Yale/Yale double.

I think the bias in academia exists because if, say, you do English for undergrad at a school, then English at the same school in the their postgrad program, others will wonder why you didn't leave your nest and expose yourself to different faculty with new views... whereas with law, if you do undergrad at a school you will be dealing with an entirely different set of faculty and, usually, administration when you attend the law school. At most schools, the law school is a fiedfdom upon itself.

Personally, I would never go to undergrad and law at the same school. You only live once (unless the Hindus are on to something and I'm coming back as a lemur), and life is too short to spend seven formative years in the same place when you should be learning more about the world.

When does a free JD trump rankings?

Well, it depends.

Does a free JD from Cooley trump an admit to Yale?

Does a free JD from, say Penn St. trump an admit to Lewis & Clark?

It's all what you're looking for.

In general, T14 schools, in terms of job prospects, are ALWAYS worth what you pay for it, if you're willing to work for BigLaw or have dreams of becoming a Supreme Court Justice. Other schools (BU, BC, some other high-ranked NYC-area schools leap to mind) have such great job prospects that they would be worth going into debt for.

Other than that, it's really up to you. My *own* advice- try to stay out of too much debt, while remembering that tmost schools outside of the T20 are regional schools and you'll probably be practicing near where you went to school. A full scholarship is hard to pass up. Some caveats:

-Be VERY wary of the terms of the scholarship. Be especially wary if the scholarship is GPA dependent, and not class-rank dependent. Many schools will offer tempting scholarships that have a seemingly easy GPA (such as 3.0). What they don't tell you is the curve is 2.5. WATCH OUT. If the scholarship is GPA-based, find out what the schools curve is. Be careful.

-Also be wary of scholarships that require you to be in the top 25%. Top 50% isn't too bad. Top 25%... well, every student thinks that they'll end up in the top 10%, but not every student does. If you struggle your first year, guess what? You're on the hook for TWO years at full price at a school you won't be able to transfer out of (because of your bad GPA) and you're only attending because of the scholarship. Hope for the best, but plan on the worst....

-T4 schools do not have great job prospects. Suffolk, if you plan on practicing in Boston, is an exception to the T4 rule. They have good placement in Boston (although not at the top firms). There are other exceptions (Pace with environmental law, for example) but they prove the rule.

-Don't go to Cooley.

Every decision must be made on a case-by-case basis. In general (outside of the T14/20), I'd go to schools that offer a scholarship. Graduating debt-free gives you options. But only if you'd be happy at that school anyway. Don't go to a school you'd be miserable at, or in a region you don't want to practice in, just because they give you the most $$$.

For these two particular cases-
I'd choose Suffolk over Northeastern, after asking Northeastern for more $$$.
You have many schools on your list you're still waiting on (Fordham, VANDY, EMORY, Wisconsin) that tare much more attractive than Suffolk with a full ride. I'd be tempted by Wake- if you want to practice in the SE. I'd take the Suffolk $$$ only if I wanted to practice in Boston AND I could afford to live there.

Where should I go next fall? / About that Miami thing
« on: April 02, 2006, 06:50:17 PM »
There's two kindsw of people...

those who divide others into arbitrary groups, and those who don't.

Anyway, there are many ways to divide Florida. You could say there's the extreme south (Miami area), Tampa Bay area, Orlando-Jax middle area, and Panhandle. But the biggest distinction is between Miami (and surrounding area) and the rest of Florida. As a somewhat-native Floridian myself (born in Dunedin, baby!), I would agree with assessment that Floridians generally have a low opinion of Miami. Maybe those aren't the right words- but they view it a a completely different area. To rural Floridians, it represents the evils of the Big City (much like upstate New Yorkers view NYC). To many others with a more, well, bigoted take on things, it is too multicultural. Your post said it all...

You didn't have a problem finding someone who spoke English.

First, there are some areas of Miami where this isn't quite true, although they are unlikely to be visited by the average UM student. Second, would you make this statement about any other city in Florida? This is the type of thing I said after I visited Amsterdam- I didn't have trouble finding someone who spoke English. Not the type of thing you'd expect to hear after visiting most cities in the US. That said, I don't think of that as a disadvantage. The latino culture there adds a vibrancy and feeling to the city that other cities lack or express differently. It also means that it is helpful (although certainly not required) to know some Spanish if you'd like to go into certain legal fields in S. Florida and want to deal with large segments of the population, or you're looking into international law, because the focus there is to the south.

Look, Miami, for some people, is a decent place to be. Some people like it. Some people *love* it and couldn't imagine living elsewhere. But if I was thinking of attending UM from out of state, and hadn't lived in a big city before, or had only lived in Northeast big cities, I would definitely check it out before committing.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC that much > than BU?
« on: April 02, 2006, 03:05:54 PM »
I lived between BC and BU. Both are great schools in a great city. BC is little too Catholic for my tastes, though.

My own opinion of the perceived opinion in Beantown:

BU might be marginally better. It may have a marginally better rep, esp. in NY city (because of undergrad- a lot of BU students from NYC, bigger school). That said, BC is has a fiercely loyal alum network. Especially for double or triple eagles.

If you have to ask what a double & triple eagle is, learn yerself some Boston. And go watch a Beanpot!

BTW- never, ever confuse the South End with Southie. As in, asking someone with a pronounced Irish accent, "Are you from the South End." Sorry, little inside humor.

Where should I go next fall? / Der....
« on: April 01, 2006, 10:51:20 PM »
Still fried from the Bball game. Starting salaries was the point of the starting salaries-wrong, or just false thread I was writing on earlier.

This is the Florida school threads.

I need some sleep.

Where should I go next fall? / Public Domain Images
« on: April 01, 2006, 10:20:40 PM »
So uh, Big Lebowski is in the public domain. And I like the phrase. And you can't sue me.

Truth is, I hadn't noticed your posts before. I was hunting for a picture to use today on google images, and that was the best Big Lebowski one I could find. And, of course, that is a great phrase. I'll find something else.  :)

Where should I go next fall? / Clarification, please?
« on: April 01, 2006, 10:17:57 PM »

As far as I know, and from the example you gave, the ABA does not report salary figures, just position (government, private etc.) and % employed figures.

Contract's numbers (from USNWR) does include salaries, and does have the statistical problems that was the point of this thread.

If the ABA does publish salary figures, I will stand corrected. Please advise as to where we can find them.

Where should I go next fall? / Orange & Blue
« on: April 01, 2006, 09:58:13 PM »
Just got back from watching the Gators thump George Mason on national TV. Bittersweet experience. I *always* root for the underdog. But it was the Gators. So I'm happy the Gatos won, and looking forward to Monday.

As to the Blue & Orange- I won't be able to arrange travel this quickly (what with a newborn and all), but since I've lived in Gainesville, I'm comfortable with my decision. I'm about 95% set on UF.

Where should I go next fall? / Averages can be misleading
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:57:07 PM »
Read this knowing the following:

I spent this morning, after the mail carrier came and delivered my UF acceptance package, and in between changing diapers, doing the following-
1. Looking into my housing options.
2. Looking into my financing options.
3. Filling out my Application for Need-Based Scholarships and Grant Assitance. This was fun. On the form, it says it is due APRIL 1st. The web seite says not to do it until you've received your acceptance. I receivied my acceptance today *cough* April 1st.
4. Realizing I no longer have any proof I had an MMR vaccine, and daydreaming about long needles.
So, it looks like I'll be at UF.

Why are UF students so arrogant? Well, because the school *is* the best. Look at the quality of the overall University. Where is cutting-edge science being done? Where are professors publishing in academic journals? What University is making a difference not just in Florida, but in the world at large? I've seen countless 'experts' on subjects that were UF professors. I've never seen one that was an FSU professor. Add to that the UF honors program also draws the truly high achievers in the state, and you get a reason why they are the best University. As for the 25th - 75th percentile LSAT scores, those can be a little misleading, as UF also has a lot more truly high achievers and is thus more selective at the high end.
Last Cycle:
LSAT 170+
UF: 32/33
FSU: 12/13
(analysis: more high LSAT apps to UF, looks like the schools dinged the same person)
UF: 331/651 (50.8%)
FSU: 344/427 (80.6%)
(analysis: more high LSAT apps to UF, and UF is much more selective at the high end)

And what about Gatorade??????

You can never define a University as 'best'. A student's experience, academic and otherwise, may be superior at FSU than it is at UF. A school is what you make of it. You may not get into a class with those famous professors at UF, or you might get a TA. But in the breadth of classes offered, in the overall rigor of the academics at the high end, and in the quality of the student body (again, at the high end), UF has an advantage.

None of this excuses the arrogance. I know from arrogance. Living in Boston, I knew, and worked with, Harvard grads and undergrads*. Some were really cool, nice people. Others suffered from acute Harvard-itis, which is the inability to keep yourself from dragging your alma mater into every conversation. You know the ones at the party- the ones who keep trying to steer the converstion until they can say, "Oh, I went to Harvard." What they forget is that your school doesn't make you- you make you. So it is with UF. If you go to UF so you can drink all day, and then drink all night, well, you have no right to feel superior to anyone else, for any reason. It goes along with my basic belief that it's a bad idea to be an obnoxious (rhymes with flick).

Pretentious is as pretentious does. Has nothing to do with your school.

*MIT ones as well, but they weren't showoffs. They just liked their toys.

You went to an IVY UG and can only get into Albany? Holy hell you must have disliked the LSAT and the LSAT must have disliked you more ....

Wow.... way to break into the bonhomie of the thread with a snotty comment!

If you noticed at the top of the thread, aj is interested in Albany because they are giving him a *free ride*. Some people do not like debt. Also, not everyone finishes at the top of their class at Ivy Leagues, so his index # might be too low to get into a T14 school due to his GPA (this is the horrible disadvantage of choosing a good undergrad school).

Finally, who died and made you king of the world? Only an arrogant SOB like you would have a pedophile's name as their screen handle. What, Michael Jackson taken already?

There, I feel better now.

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