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Messages - loki13

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News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: October 24, 2015, 01:51:49 PM »
Benghazi hearing, a mild and sad political drama.
I got more for later on that sour display.

In the meantime getting back to more important information I recall what
Mr. James Comey said to the chairman of the J.C.

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully say that one Iím not going to comment on. As you know the FBI is working on a referral given to us by Inspectors General in connection with former Secretary Clintonís use of a private email server. As you also know about the FBI, we donít talk about our investigations while we do them. This is one Iím following very closely and get briefed on regularly.Ē

This is goooood stuff. I'm following it closely too, Mr. Comey.

I'm not sure how many football it will take, Charlie Brown, but keep on kicking. I will, again, point out that you have been repeatedly, and objectively, wrong about the fact which are pointed out. And you suppositions which are based on your desires (for example, that Biden will run, that this testimony would be awesome and popcorn-worthy) don't pan out.

At some point, you might want to ask yourself why. At a certain point, it's best not to blame others for fleecing you repeatedly- you have to ask yourself why you are so susceptible to being fleeced.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2.05 GPA/163 LSAT?
« on: October 24, 2015, 09:13:25 AM »
What are my chances to being accepted? I'm a non-traditional student, so it is ideal for me to go to one of the night, part-time schools.

I was looking at Nashville School of Law as the tuition is only 5K a year. Geographically, I am not limited and willing to move.

My GPA can be explained, from when I first graduated high school over ten years ago, didn't take college seriously, changed my major three times, and didn't finish. Fast forward a decade, I went back to school retook numerous classes and finished school. Unfortunately it seems the cumulative GPA is what matters, which is a 2.05 and not the degree GPA which is a 2.90. I've also worked since I was 16 even through college, currently work as Parole Officer, and am considered a minority.

What is everyone's thoughts?

1. You are an URM (under-represented minority, in the lingo).
2. You are a splitter (your GPA and LSAT don't correlate).
3. You are non-trad (you took time off between UG and law school; more than a "gap year" or "travel abroad").

That's the lingo. Your chances are excellent. Yes, your GPA is incredibly low- but that's okay. There are some schools that will use a matrix to auto-deny you. There's nothing you can do about that. But your LSAT score, combined with URM, splitter, non-trad status will help immensely.

Brief anecdote- when I was applying to law schools, I was non-trad splitter. I listened to advice which unplayed my chances of getting into certain schools. As I have since learned, schools need to accept a certain amount of high-GPA (US News), but outside of those matrix boxes, they will look very favorably on non-trad splitters with high LSATs. Especially if they have been workin and succeeding since UG and have 1) an explanation and 2) signs of improvement (you do). More importantly, you are an URM, which will really help you at a lot of schools. Do not sell yourself short. Look at, inter alia, the historical records of schools at of actual applicants.

Finally, you should really consider not doing the night-time course. I'm just mentioning that as an option. If you scored a 163 on the LSAT, and you are an URM, and you've been shown continual signs of improvment since UG, you may be able to open doors you weren't aware of. Just think about it.


Flamers: buzz off.

I am a 1L at a toilet of a provisionally accredited law school. I got a 50% scholarship to ease the sting. Still, I am uber close to just withdrawing before we get too much further into the semester and trying my luck elsewhere. I don't know what kind of applicant that would make me at the next school, though. That is, would I be a transfer student or applying as a new student, since I didn't get any grades here where I am now???? Is it event possible? I mean, are there schools that admit students who dropped out first semester of 1L before any grades were issued?

Before you say just stay: I can't take it. The environment here is for the birds. I have tried. I am days away from pulling the plug on this little adventure, I only want to know what my options are if I go through with it.

Thanks in advance for the kindhearted lot of you who give feedback.   8)

There's not enough information here to give you a good response- specifically, why can't you take it? What is it about the environment that is "for the birds?"

The sad truth is that the first year curriculum at ABA (and provisionally-ABA) accredited schools is fairly standardized, and unless you explain what it is you find intolerable, it would be hard to advise you. Also, it would help if you explain why you attended that particular school- was it (relatively) low uGPA / low LSAT? Just the financial aid package? Just location?

The sad truth is that the generic advice, without more, that I would give to almost anyone in their first year anywhere, from Harvard to Cooley, is to stick it out. You made a decision, stick with it out, and consider transfer options if you do well. If you drop out now, it will be ... something ... that will be considered when re-applying to other schools. That you tried once and you failed.

Again, I might have better advice for you, but I don't fully understand your issues. Many (if not most!) 1Ls go through buyers remorse their first year. Some drop out. I'm not aware of any that dropped out and immediately applied, successfully, to another school.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 02:14:15 PM »
I appreciate the advice so far guys. Thank you so much.
I disagree very strongly with what was just posted. To reiterate, while I normally think retaking the LSAT doesn't help much, if you were consistently scoring higher on your practice exams by seven or more points, you should. This isn't about just getting into a school- this is about financial aid and scholarships.

A 153 won't get you the $ you would get. In addition to increasing your options (which you may, or may not, want), it will decrease your total cost of attendance. Now, this isn't a guarantee. It could just be that your practice exams were all wrong. But we are talking about a decision that could be worth six figures. That's worth the cost of the LSAT and the time.

If I am going to retake it... When should I be looking to do so? December is obviously the next test date but it would leave me with just over 6 weeks to prep. Taking it in February, on the other hand, means I have ample time to prep and ensure I am not thrown off again, but it also means I will be fighting for a smaller pool of spots and for little (if any) money. Which date makes the most sense? Is it possible to apply mid-November once I've finished up all the applications to get my decision in late December or early January, and then reapply with the second LSAT (if necessary) in March? Or is that not possible?

If, theoretically, I do get into DU, since it's outside of T1, is it even worth going? Or am I just digging myself into a hole I can't pay my way back out of? I suppose one more option is to take a gap year and retake the LSAT again next year with even more prep, but if that isn't necessary I'd rather avoid it. That said, if I really messed this up and I don't have time to fix it properly this admission cycle, I'm patient enough and have the resources to ensure I do this the right way. Still, I'm pretty scattered with the news and I really don't know what that "right way" is.

E: Citylaw answered some of these questions in a post while I was tying my response. Many thanks my friend.

There's a lot packed in there. If at all possible, I would re-take in December. Assuming everything you previously stated was correct, you don't need more time. You need to maximize a short amount of time. This isn't the Bar- it's the LSAT. Concentrate on logic games, don't stress. If you give yourself too much time (February), you won't use it efficiently. In addition, taking it in December would allow you to have a better idea of your scores (both immediately- how you felt after the exam, and the actual scores) when you apply. Definitely December.

I recommend against sending in one score if you are going to re-take the exam, and then sending in another number. This will help for admissions, but could hurt for scholarships. Again, this is assuming you are confident you will do the same, or better.

Outside of the T14, it doesn't really matter what the rankings are. DU is fine. Go to the school you get into that is where you want to practice, and offers the best financial package. Apply to a broad range of schools.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 12:21:17 PM »
First off congrats on taking the LSAT. I don't know how many people talk about it, but never actually take it.

Now that you have numbers what you do is apply to law school.  Furthermore, 153 is not a terrible score, but certainly not great either.  However, you can get into about 100 ABA schools with your numbers.

Your numbers give you a strong shot at Denver College of Law as-is. (see the official guide)

I hate to break it to you, but odds are you will not get a 160+ on the LSAT. This is nothing against you, but that is the 80th percentile of college graduates that are smart and hard-working enough to even take the LSAT.  153 puts you in the top 40%, which is still pretty good.

I scored lower than a 160 on the LSAT, but graduated from law school, passed the bar, got a job etc. 

I think your experiencing is the reality check most OL's go through. With a 3.7 GPA it seems like you were a great student the star of the class, but in law school everyone was the star of the class in undergrad and law school is a different level.

153 is not great, not bad it is fine. When you enroll in law school everyone will think the LSAT was a fluke, but they will surely be in the top 10% of the class, but obviously 90% of them cannot be.

Next Steps:
Apply to law school with your current numbers and re-take the LSAT if you want. You have nothing to lose, but 153 will get you into law school and if you get a 160 on your retake then revaluate your applications, but odds are you will get around a 153 again.

Again, congrats on taking the LSAT and having the option to attend law school. Good luck in your legal career!

I disagree very strongly with what was just posted. To reiterate, while I normally think retaking the LSAT doesn't help much, if you were consistently scoring higher on your practice exams by seven or more points, you should. This isn't about just getting into a school- this is about financial aid and scholarships.

A 153 won't get you the $ you would get. In addition to increasing your options (which you may, or may not, want), it will decrease your total cost of attendance. Now, this isn't a guarantee. It could just be that your practice exams were all wrong. But we are talking about a decision that could be worth six figures. That's worth the cost of the LSAT and the time.


News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: October 23, 2015, 09:02:52 AM »
Glad you took that last post of yours down.

Btw....biden getting ready to make a move. Yea or nay?

shutup child....................ther e happy. Go back to pretending to be an adult somewhere else.
You never even went to undergrad-seriously Admin BAN this troll. Its useless.

Dude, you really are losing it.  You don't seem to be friendly in the slightest? You make remarks about tokenism and hitler and you want me banned? Ok, yeah you sound pretty normal????

You are causing your own angst, my man.

Try to be nicer and understand that this political season we have a genuine fbi investigation into one of the candidates.  It hasn't been this entertaining since richard nixon was plugging for the presidency and his private emails (tapes)were discovered.  You have to at least understand that a cynical political wonk like myself finds this vastly, excruciatingly funny.

So, Biden gets in maybe this week? And hillary has to face the benghazi committee.  Political theatre at its finest.  I'm taping that shitt of sho'.   Not DVD, mind you. Tape, for slow rewind when she's caught in a Pinocchio binge.

Lots of popcorn.  And yes, butter.  Again.

I will briefly note, as I have previously, that it is important to separate desired outcomes from facts. For example, there is no FBI investigation of any candidate. But you knew this. Biden did not enter the race. And while the Benghazi committee certainly warranted popcorn, it likely wasn't for the reasons you hoped.

Any way, the sun will rise, the sun will set, and we will have an election next year.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 08:59:55 AM »
After getting back my unofficial LSAT score today I'm extremely disappointed to see I got a 153. After 4 months of prep I was testing in the high 150s and low 160s, but I had no idea how to do one of the logic games and that threw me off for half of the section following. That said, what do I do now? Should I retake and get closer to the 160 mark that I was bouncing around for months on end? Or do I just say screw it and apply? Where should I be looking? Obviously T30 are out of the question, but I was originally hoping to practice one day back in my home state of Colorado (Univ of Colorado or Univ of Denver for school). I have a 3.7 cumulative GPA and a 3.83 from my degree granting institution, and based off those numbers, I don't think I'll have a particularly tough time getting into DU, but it's a coin-toss to get into CU. I want to one day practice either criminal law or constitutional law. In my undergraduate studies, I have focused on classes about civil liberties and philosophy of law, so I believe I can write a solid personal statement about my passion for the topic, but I'm not sure what exactly the next step is.

Should I retake with a little over 6 weeks to prep? Or should I just apply and let the chips fall where they may? If I do apply now, other than CU and DU, where should I be looking to submit an application? I suppose I should also note that I do not have URM status. Thanks in advanced for the help


My usual advice is to not re-test on the LSAT, absent unusual circumstances. Here, however, you seem to have them. The difference between a 153 and a 161 is extreme when it comes admissions and financial aid. If you have consistently been scoring higher in practice exams, I would recommend re-taking it. Your options will be greater, and, more importantly, you may be able to get a much better scholarship at you local schools.

As Loki stated, the rankings do provide a sort of rough guide for 0Ls who can at least make a distinction between Northwestern and Appalachian. The problem, however, is that the vast majority of 0Ls aren't trying to choose between Northwestern and Appalachian. They're more likely to be choosing between Appalachian and Samford, or Appalachian and Capital.

One thing I think many of us are forgetting is that these 0Ls aren't just using the rankings to determine what school to go to once they are accepted; they are using the ranking to determine *what schools to apply to.*

Try and remember that having a rough and general idea of the relative tiers of schools is a good thing when many of the modern students apply to more than 10 schools (one recent student told me that he applied to 25 schools, and he was shocked that I was shocked).

"U.S. News exploits that fear for profit by making an arbitrary ranking of schools. "

I disagree. It's not arbitrary. You can argue with the formula (which gives great weight to the reputation in the profession, LSAT, admissions, etc.), you can say that the differences between certain schools aren't as important as some other differences, but it's not arbitrary.

I often see this argument advanced by people that do poorly in law school- that, for example, grades are arbitrary. Well, perhaps there's not a great deal of difference between the person who finished #3 in the class and #7, or the person who finished #100 and #150, and perhaps grades don't measure everything (they don't, fwiw). But they aren't arbitrary. And they can serve a useful purpose, so long as you know the limitations.

You may say that it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps. But there is some meaning there. Your analysis (arbitrary) is no more valuable than someone who worships rankings. Jus' sayin'.

"So you don't even need the rankings really before they were published Harvard was a good school as were the others I listed and everybody knew it. It is essentially amounts to a magazine telling us Shaq is big, I knew that already and didn't need a magazine to tell me."

I think you forget the information asymmetry. Do you really remember how little you knew prior to law school? Now, I believe that the rankings do harm in certain ways (they harm 0Ls as they don't know enough to realize that there is little difference between, say, #60 and #95; they harm schools that are required to change their schools in ways that they believe will improve their metrics). But they are useful in that they add information to the mix. Sure, a 0L knows that Harvard is a good law school. Do they necessarily know that UTexas and UCLA are that much better than most state schools?

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