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Messages - loki13

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« on: February 19, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »
This is how I read the situation.  If you're at a T14 school, you probably were a gunner in UG.  In UG, there's a ton of knuckleheads and disinterested students.  However, at a T14 or 25, or even at most law schools in general, nearly all of the students have had success by being highly motivated - which often comes out through participation.

Thus, you have a classroom of people who would all like to talk.  However, the majority of students understand that we must keep our thoughts to ourselves.  We all can't talk.  Therefore, if you have a general question that helps to illuminate the text - an occasional question does not make you a gunner.

However, students that feel the need to always participate are very aggrivating.  It's like the entire class understands that comments need to be kept to a very moderate minimum.  When gunners go nuts, that even further limits your ability to talk.  So if the comments of the gunner are particularly unneeded, you'll get pissed off.

In terms of the gunner who does not talk in class yet is highly competitive, I imagine this might be disliked even more.  Collegiality is a public good.  The more everyone contributes to this good, the more it exists.  Most people prefer collegiality.  However, hyper competitive students reduce the overall level of collegiality.  It brings out competitiveness in other students who otherwise would have played nice. 

Everything written above is correct. Let me add the following (in a Jeff Foxworthy fashion):

You just might be a gunner if:
1. Your law school nick name is "helium hands".
2. After your answer, the next student answers a question by saying, "And then, bingo, the court found personal jurisdiction."
3. As you clear your throat to begin answering a question, you can actually hear the sounds of eyes rolling.
4. The professor always scans the room for at least five seconds when you raise your hand, and then sighs before saying your name.
5. You continually marvel that in a lecture class of eighty people, only you are insightful enough to know the answer each time.
6. You begin to seriously wonder how the other students in the class would ever pass the exam without the knowledge elicited by your penetrating questions, and, moreover, how the professor could possibly have taught this course without considering those issues.
7. "[Your name] is a tool" is the most popular facebook group in your 1L class.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 04, 2009, 09:55:57 AM »
To tshiph,

First, I will not talk poorly about FSU (other than their football program- do they still have one?). As a general matter, UF Law provides better opportunities than FSU Law, but they are both fine schools.

As for your specific question, I don't know enough about FSU's environmental program to comment specifically. I do know this- since they are located in the state capitol, they have excellent opportunities to network with the small firms that deal with state regulations about the environment. This also affords you the opportunity to deal with the regulated entities (in-house) and the regulators (state government agencies).

UF has an amazing environmental law program. There is an ability to get a certificate (specialization) in environmental law, and we have numerous professors that specialize in environmental law and regulations (too many, if you ask me- but I'm the heartless corporate type *grin*). I have friends that are working in DC for both government agencies and for firms dealing with regulated entities. So I think our environmental program is one of great programs (after our tax program, which is also amazing- think of them as 1&2).

I would contact FSU to get more information about their program. Please remember that many people end up practicing in a different area than they thought they would. I know I am.

Finally- yes, there is a lot of competition for public interest jobs at the *high end*. If it sounds interesting and prestigious, even with low pay, it will have as much (or more) competition as you would find for a private sector job, including BigLaw. Remember- people who go to HYS also dream of working for the ACLU, saving Koala Bears, and protecting the rain forest.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 04, 2009, 09:43:32 AM »
To jpin22-

First, I have no inside information on your admissions prospects. I'll be rooting for you! In the case of such an extreme split in your LSAT scores, it is helpful for an addendum of explanation (assuming you have a good one, as opposed to hangover or test prep) that doesn't come off as whining. Assuming yours is decent, they'll focus on the higher (more recent) LSAT, which should give you a good shot- the only problem is that they are also concerned about what they have to report to USN&WR, which is (I believe) the average. I think your odds are good, but other than that, I have no info. Other stuff:

1. Generally- you don't mention this, but if you are not in-state already, begin getting your ducks in a row to get in-state! Driver's license, voter's reg, etc.

2. Living? Apartments cost $600 -$1000 for a one bedroom (depending on luxury and washer/dryer). For a two bedroom, a little over $1000 (split with a roommate). Houses right next to law school are expensive (~$2000 for three people) - see Steve at Wilberts, less so farther away. These prices are going down (two months free rent, etc. offers). As for where? Depends. There are places close to Law School, and places farther away. Gainesville has tons of places for rent.

3. Do whatever you'd like over the summer. There's a book, Getting to Maybe, that some people say helps get them to understand the "frame of mind" to take their 1L legal exams. But mainly I'd relax or earn some $. They'll teach you what you need to learn.

4. Pizza places? It's a college town. Sushi places? Quite a few. I love sushi. There's the high-end restaurant (Dragonfly). There's the quick stop (Rolls n Bowls). There's Bento (Box and Cafe). There's delivery (Sushi 2 Go). There's a bunch of other places. Some of them are good. None of them are NYC/LA quality, but they're okay.

5. 1L grades are the most important grades you receive. This is for many reasons-
a) because they're the only things you have when you apply for a 2L position,
b) because they're the only time you're taking the exact same courses as your peers and therefore they serve as the only true benchmark and,
c) because they help determine if you get on to LR or other journals automatically (as opposed to writing on).
They've mucked up the class schedules depending on profs' availability recently, but the typical schedule is 16 CR in the fall, 14 CR in the spring with the following:
Professional Responsibility
Legal Research & Writing

Constitutional Law
Civil Procedure
Appellate Advocacy

You will take all of these courses first year; they may switch some of them around (example- take ConLaw first semester and Contracts second).

Good luck!

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 02, 2009, 10:35:51 PM »
Well, when we're all wearing flannels and listening to grunge again, then we can call it a rivalry. Until that point, a yearly beatdown is not a rivalry- it's more of an excuse for people in Gainesville to marvel at the arrest records of FSU players and wonder when ol' Bobby is going to be put out to pasture. Right now, this is a "rivalry" in the sense that the yearly Yankees/Royals matchups are a rivalry; while I am sure they mean a lot to one set of fans, the other set of fans has their eyes set on bigger things.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 02, 2009, 06:21:08 PM »
Look, I'm not humor adverse. Feel free to point out anything you'd like about UF/FSU (I don't call it a rivalry because, really, just having a few also-rans at Free Shoes think they're in the same league does not a rivalry make).

What I infer from your comments is that a person who so quickly retreats into "Nah nah I go to a good school" when they haven't sniffed the inside of a law school classroom, let alone taken an exam, written an order for a judge, or billed a single hour to a client- well, that person has a lot to learn. And it takes more than a "way, way better" school to teach you that.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 02, 2009, 02:09:03 PM »
Marble Slab, what part of the gator/seminole rivalry precludes immaturity. I think it's funny how a fsu/uf rivalry doesn't translate into law school. Fortunately, I'd never attend either's law school. Do you go to UF? If you are a 1L, chances are that I know a bunch of your classmates. Of course, if your a Boalt student I don't know any of your classmates unfortunately :(

Personally, I think the whole immaturity thing is well documented. Trying to call out someone who currently has the job that you aspire to, when you haven't even started law school, is a mark of that. Please feel free to continue posting when your resume catches up to your ego.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 02, 2009, 12:57:31 PM »
Does a JD from UF offer any IP opportunities? Do you know of any recent grads landing IP-related legal jobs?

thanks in advance.

UF has good IP classes, and I know of some graduates who are working in IP (one in California, some in Florida/Atlanta/DC/NYC). However, there is nothing in particular to recommend UF's IP program over other similarly situated schools. Plus the usual cavets apply (science background, engineering degree- computer science doesn't really cut it).

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 01, 2009, 03:34:45 PM »
[Edited slightly]


I see now you aren't even in law school. It's a good idea to never underestimate the people you are talking too. I made the mistake of assuming you knew anything.

Get a clue, 0L. You are worthless.

There is nothing sadder than someone trading on the reputation of a school they're not even attending yet. You don't even know what you don't know.

I apologize for the threadjack; I will be happy to continue answering any questions from prospective students at UF.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 01, 2009, 01:14:49 PM »
Let's see:

Cost: $10,809
Intangibles: Largest alum network in Florida, widely considered the best school, and law school, in Florida

Cost: $10,770
Intangibles: Closer to beach, Burt Reynolds comes by occasionally, home to many nice people who didn' get into UF

Cost: $15,025
Intangible: wonderful networking opportunities in Oklahoma; beautiful, scenic, Oklahoma. Free schooner for all law school admits.

Oh yeah- last three years on the football field (and UF Law students get the tix):

Oklahoma: Three bowl drubbings. 0-1 vs. UF. One Heisman.

FSU: Behind the UF rivalry 32-19, lost last 5.

UF: Has beaten the Okies the only time they've played, beat FSU the lat five straight, won two national championships and one Heisman.

But I'm guessing you're not a big fan of facts, or numbers, or things like that.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UF 3L - Will Answer Questions
« on: February 01, 2009, 12:33:45 PM »

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I was misleading. Let me be clear- considering that T14(!) schools are competing with each other to move their OCI dates as far forward ass possible, and BigLaw firms are yanking offers, I thought people were aware that this is the worst economic climate possible for current entering lawyers. There are a few points to make:

1. If you are in-state, your cost of attendance is going to 1/4 that of going to a private school; less, if you get a scholarship. The COLA for Gainesville is great. You can graduate from this place with much less debt if you either in-state or get your ducks in a row to get in-state for your 2d and 3d years.

2. The economy will (hopefully) improve by the time the current group of applicants matriculates.

That said, it's tough out there. Law Review people are still getting clerkships and BigLaw jobs. The state cutbacks have lessened the number of positions that are traditionally available (prosecutor, PD etc.). The people at the bottom half of the class, especially the 'floaters' (those who weren't sure what they wanted to do and haven't really worried about employment) are really suffering. I have many classmates who have no idea what they'll be doing next year, and the number is much, much higher than last year.

Your prospects at UF are better than at any other school in Florida, but, like everywhere else, we are seeing the deleterious effects the current economic downturn has on the legal market. I have no crystal ball. I don't know when it will improve. My advice has always been the same- if you can go to a T14, do it. While I, and some friends of mine, chose UF for tuition/family reasons over T14 schools, I wouldn't recommend it since you don't know what will happen with that one bad exam your first year.

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