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Messages - Section Eight

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51
I don't know what would have worked, but I know what we had did not work and is therefore open to question.

I don't think marshal law is the only answer.  You're looking at the symptoms without considering the disease.  We need to look at a systemic and long term analysis.  That means looking beyond preventing a specific act and look wider and harder.

I think your statement that there is only one way we could have prevented the attack is reflective of the current establishment thinking.  When you think there is only one way to do something, you need to find new ways to look at things.

Well I do agree with you, but where does the restructuring occur?  Is it the military and it's mission that needs to be reworked or is it the intelligence agencies, the state polices, the local law enforcement agencies, the freedoms alloted to people, the immigration policies,or the entire government?  I don't feel comfortable asking this question because I fear I will get some pretty extreme answers, but oh well!

I think we still have to be very careful with major changes.

52
In a round-about way it would, simply because my beliefs usually run parallel to those of the Republican party; however, I like to think that I look at both candidates with an open mind.

Then the part affiliation would not be a factor?

I selected "party of the candidate"; however, I do not like how that sounds.  Typically, that would not be the most important factor by any means to me, yet, this time it is.   :-\

A lot of voters vote the party line.



Yeah I know; however, I like to believe that I take the time to fully evaluate candidate's beliefs and policies based towards my own beliefs, instead of blindly following partisan ties.

53
Quote
Does this mean the Iraqi Government is Failing?

I don't think so.  To be honest, I have high hopes for the Iraqi government, but I believe it is way too early in a still very volatile area to make a claim that the government is failing.

54
Law School Admissions / Re: Computer/tech problems?
« on: August 15, 2004, 07:27:12 PM »
For the poll: Ironically, I am a sysad, and I feel I know quite a bit about computers and networks (in charge of three seperate secure WAN's); however, I absolutely hate computers and even more so being whored out to family and friends for free tech support.  Not to sound like an ass, I just really do not like computers heh.

55
I selected "party of the candidate"; however, I do not like how that sounds.  Typically, that would not be the most important factor by any means to me, yet, this time it is.   :-\

A lot of voters vote the party line.

Yeah I know; however, I like to believe that I take the time to fully evaluate candidate's beliefs and policies based towards my own beliefs, instead of blindly following partisan ties.

56
Eight, maybe I overreacted.  I'm cranking because I don't know how to type that funny S symbol used as an abbrev for section, I think.

Who's to say it failed?  Since we don't have a control group for our experiment, we can't know, but we can guess.

My guess is that it failed.  An attack on the center of a major US city that destroyed a major landmark and killed 3,000 people.  That sounds like a big failure.  I know that some would say that DOD was not supposed to prevent that kind of attack.  That would prove my point.  If our strategy does not provide protection for an large attack on a major city of the US, then it has failed.




I hear you Jj, yet once again, I think differently than you.  I think it is horrendous that we had an attack on a major landmark that killed roughly 3000 people; however, I do not think for one second that it means our military vision has failed.  Once again, I truly believe there will always be ways to attack a country as large, admired, and as free as our country.

However, what actions would you want want from the military?  The only way we could help prevent against something like 9/11 is if we were used as a policing agency CONUS as we are overseas.  Outside of standard intelligence and reconaissance - which we already do - (and border protection from Coast Guard / Navy)there is really nothing we could do locally that would not step on jurisdictions of local policing agencies.  And nobody wants to see any form of martial law enforced.

And yes, I would love to know how to make that "S" as well.   ;D

57
"US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said the activities of Iraqi Shia leader Moqtada Sadr and his supporters are unlawful and harmful."

Does this do any good?  I don't get it. Surely Sadr knows the US is after him and willing to use extreme measures to stop him.  Does it help for Rumsfeld to make these speeches?

Rumsfeld warning for Iraq's Sadr
By Nick Childs
BBC Pentagon correspondent, reporting from St Petersburg

Donald Rumsfeld (left) with Sergei Ivanov in St Petersburg
Rumsfeld in Russia: Differences persist between the two countries
US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said the activities of Iraqi Shia leader Moqtada Sadr and his supporters are unlawful and harmful.

Speaking on a visit to St Petersburg, Russia, he said it was up to local coalition commanders and the Iraqi government to deal with the situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3564318.stm

I don't believe Rumsfield (or any of our leaders for that matter) make these speeches for the benefit of the people we are fighting; BBC writer simply titled his article implying it was to Sadr.  However, I do think it is very necessary for the Secretary of Defense to attempt to explain the reasoning of our military actions to our citizens and our allies.

58
I am saying that the strategy of defending America elsewhere has failed.

If we had concentrated on defending America, perhaps it never would have happened.

As to where the majority of our forces were, I don't know and I'm guessing you don't either.  The fact of the matter is that it is the strategy of the DOD to operate outside the US.  There were and probably still are not any contingency plans for DOD to operate within the US

Sectiion? the sarcasm isn't adding anything.

First, I am sorry you think my comment was filled with sarcasm.  To be honest, it wasn't; it was actually how I think you feel.  I think that you would be upset regardless of how things were handled.

Second, who is to say that defending America elsewhere has failed?  Things could possibly have been much worse had we taken a different stance, there is possibilities that we can only speculate on; however, as a nation we are still here and strong to be able to make those speculations.  I don't see how you believe that there is a definitive way of preventing attacks from ever happening.  And I am sure most of this nation is very happy that of the major conflicts / wars we have had over the last 50 + years none of them have been on American soil.

Oh, and I do know where the majority of our forces were/are.  The numbers of military members at any location are made readily available through .mil sites. 

59
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Jeff Joe's future calling poll
« on: August 15, 2004, 06:46:12 PM »
Great!  I am in support of forming new political parties and getting away from the strict bipartisan system we have now.   ;D

60
Are you suggesting we should have invaded Afghanistan before 9/11?  Probably back in the Clinton administration in order to head 9/11 off before they had a chance to start planning that attack?

No.  That would be following the failed strategy.  I'm suggested the strategy is failed.  That instead of traipsing around the world, our defense forces should have been defending America.

The majority of all our military forces are here at home.  You will never be happy.

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