Law School Discussion

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Messages - Anti09

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31
GPA matters more than class rank, because that's what gets reported to USNWR.  GPA and LSAT together will determine roughly 90-95% of your application, absent extenuating factors (URM or strong soft like military experience). 

32
I really think there is a lot of delusion at both ends.  Yes, people still get jobs and not everyone is screwed.  There are chicken littles out there who are going crazy.  But things aren't easy, particularly for lower-ranked grads.

 I was a top 1/4 at a school just outside the top 50.  I was a law review editor and moot court member.  I had two fantastic internships, one of which produced a ton of 1st chair experience, and I was networking and job hunting from 1L Christmas until I passed the bar.  I got my first full-time attorney job two days before I was sworn in as an attorney (Five months after graduation), and most of my income is based on bonuses.

In my experience, the legal field is absolutely brutal right now, and the available jobs for new associates are absolute crap.  I hustled for years and basically worked for free for four employers while I studied for the bar.  Hundreds of emails, months of networking, at least 50 applications for open positions, calling in every favor I had.   At the end of all that, I had two associate offers, and one came when a managing partner liked me a lot during a paralegal interview.

One state court clerkship in a medium market (salary = less than 40k/year) attracted well over 100 licensed attorney applicants. 100!  The guy who got it was ranked in the top ten students at a school in the top 40.

Anyone at the bottom half of their class or in the bottom half of law schools faces an incredibly brutal, up-hill battle for jobs with horrible starting salaries.

My advice to those licensed attorneys still looking for a job is to write emails to every attorney you can find and offer to do their crap drafting work for 40 bucks an hour on a contract basis.  Also, apply for paralegal jobs and then just start picking up attorney work as it becomes available in your firm.  They will love this because they can pay you less than 20 bucks an hour and bill you out at a low rate, but still tell your clients you are an attorney.

Hanging a shingle is a pretty awful option.  Besides the fact that law school teaches you nothing about actually being a lawyer, the start up costs associated with solo practice are often prohibitive, especially for those with significant student debt.
I hear this a lot from students of other law schools. Is Cooley the only one that teaches law office managment and accounting for lawyers along with pretrail skills, trial skills andthe  basic ability to survive?

Probably because Cooley is the rare TTT that recognizes from the start that it's extremely unlikely for their graduates to get jobs at real firms, and thus will be proportionately more likely to hang a shingle out of desperation.

(For the record, Cooley grads have a greater chance at unemployment than they do of scoring work as a lawyer._

33
GPA is way more important than what majors you have, or how many you have.  AdComms don't really care about that stuff.  They primarily care about two things:  LSAT and GPA.  Assuming you are non-URM, those two factors will be about 95% determinant of where you go to law school.

34
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Just looking for feedback
« on: August 20, 2012, 07:17:24 PM »
I am in the early stages of deciding on where I should apply for law school and was just looking to get some insight on various schools/recommendations on schools.  I received a score of 156 on my first LSAT (haven't decided on a retake) and have a 3.4 GPA.  I feel that I also have some pretty good soft factors which will help me out.  Essentially I am just looking for some suggestions on schools which would be a good fit.  I will going to be a undergraduate senior and will not be enrolling in law school until fall of 2013.

If you can raise that lsat to a 160 it is a full ride at cooley. Near full ride as is.

And I'll bet the OP didn't think he had any good options!  ::)

I would never go to Cooley, free ride or otherwise.  It's a waste of three years and would be an utter embarrassment to put on a resume.  Cooley defines festering TTT.

35
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Just looking for feedback
« on: August 20, 2012, 07:15:12 PM »
I am in the early stages of deciding on where I should apply for law school and was just looking to get some insight on various schools/recommendations on schools.  I received a score of 156 on my first LSAT (haven't decided on a retake) and have a 3.4 GPA.  I feel that I also have some pretty good soft factors which will help me out.  Essentially I am just looking for some suggestions on schools which would be a good fit.  I will going to be a undergraduate senior and will not be enrolling in law school until fall of 2013.

Soft factors generally mean very little to nothing at all.  They're enough to tip you one way or the other if you're going up against a similarly qualified candidate, but that's all they'll ever be - adcomms care about numbers, plain and simple. 

Quote
You're on the cusp of getting into a solid top tier school (perhaps even top 14).

Not with his current score.  He'd need to raise his LSAT a good 10 points to be competitive at a T14.  (OP, that doesn't mean that isn't possible - you can absolutely do it and you absolutely should, as the superior options you'll have coming from a top tier school will be far and away worth the time you spent prepping for the LSAT).

36
I really think there is a lot of delusion at both ends.  Yes, people still get jobs and not everyone is screwed.  There are chicken littles out there who are going crazy.  But things aren't easy, particularly for lower-ranked grads.

 I was a top 1/4 at a school just outside the top 50.  I was a law review editor and moot court member.  I had two fantastic internships, one of which produced a ton of 1st chair experience, and I was networking and job hunting from 1L Christmas until I passed the bar.  I got my first full-time attorney job two days before I was sworn in as an attorney (Five months after graduation), and most of my income is based on bonuses.

In my experience, the legal field is absolutely brutal right now, and the available jobs for new associates are absolute crap.  I hustled for years and basically worked for free for four employers while I studied for the bar.  Hundreds of emails, months of networking, at least 50 applications for open positions, calling in every favor I had.   At the end of all that, I had two associate offers, and one came when a managing partner liked me a lot during a paralegal interview.

One state court clerkship in a medium market (salary = less than 40k/year) attracted well over 100 licensed attorney applicants. 100!  The guy who got it was ranked in the top ten students at a school in the top 40.

Anyone at the bottom half of their class or in the bottom half of law schools faces an incredibly brutal, up-hill battle for jobs with horrible starting salaries.

My advice to those licensed attorneys still looking for a job is to write emails to every attorney you can find and offer to do their crap drafting work for 40 bucks an hour on a contract basis.  Also, apply for paralegal jobs and then just start picking up attorney work as it becomes available in your firm.  They will love this because they can pay you less than 20 bucks an hour and bill you out at a low rate, but still tell your clients you are an attorney.

Hanging a shingle is a pretty awful option.  Besides the fact that law school teaches you nothing about actually being a lawyer, the start up costs associated with solo practice are often prohibitive, especially for those with significant student debt.

37
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Dayton or Baltimore
« on: August 18, 2012, 10:35:39 AM »
Dayton for the first year and then the option to transfer in to somewhere else the 2nd year. Keep 1L grades up.

This is awful advice.  Never go into a law school expecting to transfer, since you have about a 90% chance of not getting the grades sufficient to do so.

38
Where should I go next fall? / Re: National Scholar
« on: July 05, 2012, 06:33:44 PM »
This is a no brainer.  Retake. Don't waste that GPA.

39
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Entertainment/Media Law Schools
« on: June 25, 2012, 04:41:31 PM »
"Entertainment" law is mostly a flame.  Those who get it either go HYS or have significant connections.  You won't have a snowball's chance in hell with any of the schools you're considering.  It also doesn't matter how good they say their "concentration" in that particular field is, nobody cares about specialty rankings south of the T14.

40
Law School Applications / Re: Chances of admission
« on: June 21, 2012, 12:28:56 PM »
If you have no need for my suspicion or my comments, stop responding. Good God, man. I still think you're full of it.

Please name 1 single person who has gotten a 180? Just one. Ben Stein? In practical terms- it just doesn't happen. 170s, yes. 180 not so much.  You know logic is learned, right?  If you are being honest about your score, skip law school and start an LSAT test prep company.

You reference specifically states 158 is top %20ish percent (top %26.4). I don't know what to say to you about that.  I'll gloss over the fact that its a commercial ad and not trustworthy (meaning they probably change the numbers slightly to scare people in order to seem more needed, selling more services).

P.S. Did you score a perfect score on the MCAT too?

Ok I think the OP is trolling too, but surely you can't be serious.  By definition, someone has to score a 180 on every test.  Also, Robin Singh (creator of Testmasters) holds the world record for the highest number of perfect LSAT scores (11 times).

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