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Messages - politicolaw

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11
Stetson and UF dominate the Tampa Bay area.

12
Transferring / Re: Touro to...some other place in NY
« on: May 14, 2011, 08:26:57 PM »
I believe the recruiting/oci data website that was being mentioned is the NALP site. its nalpdirectory.org

Lists OCI, firm profiles, etc.

13
I think its fair to say that any field you go into now is going to require you to be hard working, and dedicated to what you are doing.

I live in Florida, and applied/toured some FL law school last year. Barry, has a fair reputation but is a rather bare bones school - theres nothing fancy, but it gets the job done.  Ave Maria, I would be very conscious of their religious affiliation and views. Barry is also Catholic but has it has minimal influence on the law school. At Ave Maria, the whole town and law school are influenced by these shared values, and I'd imagine theres a required class on Catholic ethics or something similar.

Barry would be a better choice, unless you have a strong Catholic faith that would connect you better with Ave.

14
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: April 30, 2011, 09:58:30 AM »
I believe thats exactly the argument. I agree that someone with a 2.9 and 146 would probably have a difficult time- also if those are accurate representations of that persons ability (maybe they were in the military, worked, whatever).

From my understanding, Cooley does accept people with low numbers.... ** with the understanding that they are giving you a chance to prove yourself amidst the competition.
- LSAC says about 20% attrition after 1L, and its right down the middle 10% transfer and 10% fail out.

I do believe this reflects at least an average quality graduate in the end, if you can make it through the cuts and competition for the first year or two then it should be alright. I've talked to Florida Cooley alumni and this is what they have reiterated the same message.

The negatives of Cooley are about the rankings (that should be gone), low admissions standards, and the attrition for the first year or two. But in the end, I think the quality of a graduate after going through Cooley's process isn't what is in question.

15
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Starting Cooley in May
« on: April 26, 2011, 07:01:48 AM »
Still shouldn't matter. 50% tuition at a T4 school in a legal market that is the worst in the country in a dying city (seriously, have you visited Lansing lately?) still isn't worth it. The COA at Cooley is over 30K/year.  That means that you will still pay 60K to go there, plus room and board (law books are about $500/semester, you can get a decent apartment in Lansing for $400/month, but you have to pay for parking all over the city).  75% discount on tuition at Cooley will put you 30K (plus room and board) in debt.  Please, someone make me a compelling argument as to why this appears to be a smart move? Law school is all about arguments, right?  Prove to me that taking on massive, non-dischargeable debt at a T4 that is the laughingstock of the legal community is a smart idea.


Living expenses should be taken out of consideration, you will always have living expenses as long as you remain living. And let's say you have the 50% scholarship, that would put Cooley in the tuition area with in state tuition at most state law schools. laughingstock? really?.. just really? Its a smart move to those who want to be a lawyer, and this ends up being their best option available. Any law school is better than no law school if becoming a lawyer is the goal.


I am by no means elitist, and not against T4 schools. But there is a difference between a school like Detroit-Mercy and a school like Cooley.  UDM doesn't pretend it isn't what it is; Cooley places itself ahead of Yale in its own rankings. That should be warning enough for you there.

Detroit Mercy actually has a lower bar passage rate than Cooley based on lsac percentages. Substantially so.

You don't need to actually go to Cooley to understand all of this or have an opinion about it. You can rely off "friend of friends" (this isn't court, after all: hearsay forms the basis of opinions all the time) or, better yet, just Google it. If Cooley didn't have so many problems attached to it, there wouldn't be so many former disgruntled students (try Googling Yale and see if you yield similar results. Hint: you won't.  Try Googling Detroit Mercy, Toledo, Wayne State, MSU, or any other schools in the area, you won't find the same negative reviews).

On this discussion forum specifically there are the same complaints about Toledo and UDM and various other t3/t4 schools. No one in their right mind is comparing Cooley to Yale.

If you can only get into a T4, then by all means go for it, especially if you can get a scholly and you absolutely must be an attorney. But go to one in your local geography that has a decent reputation.  They are located in and around all major cities and will afford you many more opportunities then Cooley Law School will, as local reputation and alumni connections will be stronger. Cooley has such a negative stigma attached to it in the legal community that you shouldn't even consider it as a viable option unless you can get a full rid scholly and can come out of law school debt free and at the top of your class, and even then, jobs will be very difficult to come by.

A law degree does still happen to be a professional degree in which you can have your own law office. You can also pursue teaching and various related opportunities. If you have a doctoral degree and no job, I firmly believe your not creative enough.

I think this will be my last post on the subject, as people are apt to follow their hearts and not the informed advice of someone else (such as myself, as I am in Michigan and I work in a mid-size law firm which only hires Cooley law students as unpaid interns to satisfy their externship requirement and then lets them go after that (free labor is free labor)). People will do what they want to do, and won't heed the caution of others. If you are going to go to Cooley, you only have yourself to blame when you are thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable debt and can't secure a job.
Still shouldn't matter. 50% tuition at a T4 school in a legal market that is the worst in the country in a dying city (seriously, have you visited Lansing lately?) still isn't worth it. The COA at Cooley is over 30K/year.  That means that you will still pay 60K to go there, plus room and board (law books are about $500/semester, you can get a decent apartment in Lansing for $400/month, but you have to pay for parking all over the city).  75% discount on tuition at Cooley will put you 30K (plus room and board) in debt.  Please, someone make me a compelling argument as to why this appears to be a smart move? Law school is all about arguments, right?  Prove to me that taking on massive, non-dischargeable debt at a T4 that is the laughingstock of the legal community is a smart idea.

Only at most a third of Cooley students go to lansing. And all campuses except for Auburn Hills have access to transit.

I am by no means elitist, and not against T4 schools. But there is a difference between a school like Detroit-Mercy and a school like Cooley.  UDM doesn't pretend it isn't what it is; Cooley places itself ahead of Yale in its own rankings. That should be warning enough for you there.

We all plead for Cooley to abolish its dreadful rankings!

You don't need to actually go to Cooley to understand all of this or have an opinion about it. You can rely off "friend of friends" (this isn't court, after all: hearsay forms the basis of opinions all the time) or, better yet, just Google it. If Cooley didn't have so many problems attached to it, there wouldn't be so many former disgruntled students (try Googling Yale and see if you yield similar results. Hint: you won't.  Try Googling Detroit Mercy, Toledo, Wayne State, MSU, or any other schools in the area, you won't find the same negative reviews).

Google will lead you to lots of things, some you might not want to rely on.

If you can only get into a T4, then by all means go for it, especially if you can get a scholly and you absolutely must be an attorney. But go to one in your local geography that has a decent reputation.  They are located in and around all major cities and will afford you many more opportunities then Cooley Law School will, as local reputation and alumni connections will be stronger. Cooley has such a negative stigma attached to it in the legal community that you shouldn't even consider it as a viable option unless you can get a full rid scholly and can come out of law school debt free and at the top of your class, and even then, jobs will be very difficult to come by.

I think this will be my last post on the subject, as people are apt to follow their hearts and not the informed advice of someone else (such as myself, as I am in Michigan and I work in a mid-size law firm which only hires Cooley law students as unpaid interns to satisfy their externship requirement and then lets them go after that (free labor is free labor)). People will do what they want to do, and won't heed the caution of others. If you are going to go to Cooley, you only have yourself to blame when you are thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable debt and can't secure a job.

Thats nice, I have no interest in working for  a firm.

16
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Starting Cooley in May
« on: April 25, 2011, 01:17:30 AM »
Also, the scholarship info has been discussed in this same category here:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/index.php?topic=4025079.0

17
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Starting Cooley in May
« on: April 25, 2011, 01:15:51 AM »
* just to keep all the "facts" correct here.. the Cooley scholarships only require that you keep a 2.0. I have one, I would know.

* the attrition rate, as posted on the LSAC data shows a quarter of the first year class leaving, but its evenly divided between transfers and those leaving because of being kicked out.

Also consider, most Cooley students go part time and work - don't work the first year and focus and you should be able to stay on top of everything.

Lastly, when researching weigh the quality of information. Find out about Cooley from current or former students, its much more valuable than the "I had a friend who went there" stories.

18
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Starting Cooley in May
« on: April 20, 2011, 10:17:16 AM »
Just wondering, what campus at Cooley are you attending? I will be starting there in the fall, but I would also imagine where you are in the state could also have an impact. I've noticed, in Grand Rapids there are no other law schools in the area to compete with - I'm not going to GR, but just an observation.

I'm from Florida and I've met a handful of Cooley alums here and all were doing well & had good things to say. Best of luck!

19
St Thomas is in the ghetto! Like really.. there is a gated entry with security and a fence around the whole campus, and it looks like crap. With tuition like that... really? It sounds ok, and looks ok online, but the location... eh.

Id say barry given it has a solid hold on the orlando area, and its cheaper to live in orlando.

20


I just took the LSAT yesterday.

I am estimating a score in the 130's. It was a complete disaster.

I actually have a medical disorder called IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), and it started acting up halfway through the test  :D
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Seriously??? + 130s LSAT... good luck buddy lol


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