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Messages - bass

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41
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 03, 2007, 09:47:51 AM »
I did some searching myself and noticed that Section II has fall classes in both "A" and "B" blocks, which means an 8:XX a.m. start every day of the week. All the other sections have a break-of-dawn class 3 days per week except for section IV, which has no classes scheduled before 10:00 a.m. (my personal choice . . . *cross fingers*).

I am definitely going to keep my fingers crossed against section II. I purposefully haven't had a class before 10 since high school...though maybe that's just begging karma to stick me with all the early classes. Yeah, I know "the real world" doesn't wait until 10 AM to start (what with me posting from work at 9 AM), but there's a reason I'm putting "the real world" off for three more years!  ;)

You'll like Section 2 if you get it.  Meltzer is a very good prof, and he brings in amazing speakers (Seth Waxman, Larry Lucchino, Ben Heineman, Margaret Marshall, etc.).

42
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 03, 2007, 08:31:05 AM »
I'd like section IV, I'm not a morning person. Also, no Dersch?

I know . . . disappointing. Lots of "visiting" profs too, it seems.

Visiting profs are very common. The no dersh thing is less so. More disappointing is no Martha Minow or Elizabeth Warren, but I suppose everyone needs a break sometime.

43
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 02, 2007, 11:27:05 AM »
Anyone notice that some of the sections are taking 4 of the big 5, (civ pro, crim, prop, K's and torts), in the first semester?

Section 5 Fall:
civ pro
K's
crim
prop

yeesh....

If you add in Legislation, it looks like every section will have 4 of the 6 in the fall, plus LRW.  The plan was to make the 5 less credit hours in order to make it work, which I they've done (4 instead of 5 credits).

44
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 02, 2007, 11:23:35 AM »
yeah, it looks like they just randomized the non-civpro courses.  so are we not doing the new international law courses afterall?  I don't see them anywhere on the course list.

seems like each section will have its own challenges.  like for section 4, three of the 4 1st semester profs have never taught these classes at HLS before, so that means no old outlines, old exams to review, etc.

The international law thing may be added later.  I thought (you'd know better) that you will end up with a choice of a few in the Spring.

45
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 02, 2007, 11:19:45 AM »
Anyone notice that some of the sections are taking 4 of the big 5, (civ pro, crim, prop, K's and torts), in the first semester?

Section 5 Fall:
civ pro
K's
crim
prop

yeesh....

Aha!  That's it!  I forgot there's a new curriculum.  I'll update the list to include the legislation courses, which might totally change my opinions.

46
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 02, 2007, 11:08:37 AM »
Thanks for the outline offer, L52!

Bass, what did you like about Fried, Mann and Manning?

I didn't have Manning.  He is just well-known to be a rising superstar.  He's one of Dean Kagan's fantastic recent lateral hires, and he is a conservative.  HLS had a reputation for a while of avoiding conservative scholars, and it may have hurt the school a bit.  He also seems (in very limited interaction) to be a good guy.

Fried has had some incredible experiences.  He was SG (among other things, being in charge of representing the United States in front of the Supreme Court) and a Justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court.  He also wrote one of the best-known books in Contract law (Contract as Promise), though plenty of people criticize it for various reasons.  He now regularly represents insurance companies in the ugly side of appellate cases (e.g., trying to argue that Katrina victims should not recover because their houses were destroyed by flood not winds or whatever; trying to argue that the WTC owners should have limited recovery because the two planes constituted one "event," etc.).  This can turn your stomach, but it doesn't get much more high profile.  As a result, Fried has incredible stories.

Fried is also big on theory, which I like.  He is surprisingly pro-law and econ, which you would never have guessed from reading his classic works.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mann will teach you property.  It will be a classic HLS Socratic experience, but generally not a scary one (unless, maybe, you have him 1st semester).  He is a really nice guy who has nice stories to tell himself that are directly relevant to the material (e.g., cutting off half of his balcony to meet zoning set-back requirements).  You finish the semester feeling like you've really learned the law.  He also assigns less reading than many other professors, though he will expect you to know the cases very well, particularly early on.

I think the majority of my section liked Mann the best (maybe Meltzer).  I personally liked Sarge the best, probably, but they were all great.  Fried didn't connect with many of my sectionmates (as I said, I very much enjoyed him personally), for varied reasons that I won't mention here.

47
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 02, 2007, 12:21:45 AM »
Bass, didn't you make LR?  If so, congrats man. 

Thanks!

48
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: HLS Class of 2010!!!
« on: August 01, 2007, 05:37:45 PM »
Also, after some cutting and pasting, here are the current profs by section (some empty spots).  The star indicates likely Section Leader, based on the "Faculty Leader Meeting" class.

UPDATED: Now includes "Legislation"

Section 1
Molot - Civpro
Brewer  - K's
Steiker* Crim
Horwitz Torts
Mack Prop
Rakoff - Legislation

Section 2
Greiner - Civpro
Meltzer* Crim
Glendon Prop
Goldberg Torts
Triantis Ks
Stephenson - Legislation

Section 3
Super - Civpro
Mnookin K's
Singer* - Prop
Lanni Crim
? - Torts
Vermeule - Legislation

Section 4
Desan - Civpro
Suk Crim
Manning* - Legislation
Hutchinson Torts
Fried K's
Mann Prop

Section 5
Tyler - Civpro
Frug K's
Sklansky Crim
Barron* - Legislation
Donahue Prop
Sargentich Torts

Section 6
Frost - Civpro
Weinreb Crim
Hanson* - Torts
Coates K's
Bilder Prop
Tushnet - Legislation

Section 7
Clark Civpro
Rakoff* K's
Shugerman Torts
Washburn Crim
Smith Prop
Freeman - Legislation

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/courses/schedule/2007-08/


If this is accurate, it is very interesting to see some perrenial favorites missing: Warren, Minnow, and Dersh come quickly to mind.  Based on my limited knowledge, no section stands out as particularly rough or exciting, though I'd probably go for 4 myself.  I enjoyed both Mann and Fried (for very different reasons); Desan strikes me as very good; and Suk is a young star.  If Manning is involved, I think he's fantastic.

50
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Harvard (the it factor)
« on: July 24, 2007, 01:22:58 PM »
Keep in mind that most of the second graduate degrees held by those entering academia were earned prior to going to law school, so the higher percentage of people with secondary degrees at HYSCCN(etc) may have more to do with the admissions decisions of those schools rather than the need for graduates of those schools to have other degrees in order to be desirable in the law-teaching market.

This is fair.

Another factor I've wondered about is whether, if your ugrad credentials aren't elite, YLS is a more difficult place to distinguish yourself.  Even if you can lots of H's and are on YLJ, you probably don't look all that different from many other people.  I suspect, then, that having that ivy ugrad, etc. makes even more of a difference in such cases.  I don't know whether this is true.

When it comes to law-related jobs, where you went for law school matters substantially more than where you went for ugrad.  I don't think your ugrad matters much at all.  They're not going to turn away someone who was on YLJ just because he/she went to an unknown UG.  If they could make it to a place like HYSCCN, they've already proven themselves and proven that their ugrad experience was meaningful and impressive.

As I've read in numerous articles about law careers, legal recruiters like to recruit at top schools not just because of the name recognition, but also because they know that due to their selectivity, top schools have already done the leg work of finding highly qualified people.

I am aware of all of that, and I certainly think that any lawyering job should be relatively easy for, for example, a YLJ member.  I was referring to distnguishing for the opportunities at the very top (top clerkships, etc.).

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