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Messages - pass36

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41
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:55:26 AM »
Bass, while I pretty much agree with you, I am not sure you can call Parmenides and Gorgias both sophists.  Parmenides (thinking and the thought it is are the same) seems more a philosophical metaphysician and less a rhetorical teacher of virtue.  It is certainly debatable though.

Fair point.  The overall idea is the same. Plato is not universally opposed to all sophists (though he may be philosophically opposed to their practices).

1. It doesn't matter whether Plato was opposed to sophists or not, what matters is did he give an accurate portrayal of their beliefs.
2. We know that neither he nor any others can be relied upon to give an exact replica of what the sophists believed.
3. We simply cannot know with any degree of certainty what they believed without their writings.

Heck, I can't figure out with any degree of certainty what PLATO believed and I try to re-read at least one dialogue every month!  The point of philosophy is to change your world not to understand how the sophists interpreted theirs (which apologies to Marx).

42
Financial Aid / Re: Oregon Scholarships Anyone?
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:48:43 AM »
Is it just me or were you less bitter and negative before you decided to move to the land of the flyover? :D

43
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:47:03 AM »
Bass, while I pretty much agree with you, I am not sure you can call Parmenides and Gorgias both sophists.  Parmenides (thinking and the thought it is are the same) seems more a philosophical metaphysician and less a rhetorical teacher of virtue.  It is certainly debatable though.

44
Financial Aid / Re: Oregon Scholarships Anyone?
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:10:23 AM »
I got offered the same 6K and withdrew.  I think three or four other people on here did also.

45
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Words that we should all use more often
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:06:57 AM »
I only knew that because that highway was in a Porsche commercial about the most scenic drives in America.  I think it was #6.

46
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 02, 2006, 12:03:22 AM »
Hobbes tackles a philosophical problem:  How can the state be ordered so that regicide is not only immoral but actually incoherent/inconceivable?  That was an important problem, especially if you liked the king!  But it is really more of a political problem than a philosophical one.

The Sophists were the easiest and you can't understand Socrates and Plato without them to react to, or at least why they came up with their ideas.

You do know that we don't have any writings of the Sophists and that what we know about them comes directly from Plato who didn't like them right?

You do know that there is a collection of fragments from the Sophists generally referred to as Diels Kranz and that not all of them are from Plato (though a fair percentage are)?

I'm not sure if a "fragment" counts in this case because...

Still pretty important though.

Read Heideggers collection "Early Greek Thinking" for excellent commentaries on them, especially the Anaximander Fragment ("Whence things have their origin, there they must also pass away according to necessity; for they must pay penalty and be judged for their injustice, according to the ordinance of time") and Heraclitus B 50 ("When you have listened not to me but to the Meaning, it is wise within the same Meaning to say: One is All.").  There is a lot packed into those two sentences!

47
I will be in five minutes  :-\

>:(

fine, abandon me.

Hey Stan, my sugar momma has to go bring home the bacon!  Don't get in her way!!  :D :D :D

48
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:52:35 PM »
Hobbes tackles a philosophical problem:  How can the state be ordered so that regicide is not only immoral but actually incoherent/inconceivable?  That was an important problem, especially if you liked the king!  But it is really more of a political problem than a philosophical one.

The Sophists were the easiest and you can't understand Socrates and Plato without them to react to, or at least why they came up with their ideas.

You do know that we don't have any writings of the Sophists and that what we know about them comes directly from Plato who didn't like them right?

You do know that there is a collection of fragments from the Sophists generally referred to as Diels Kranz and that not all of them are from Plato (though a fair percentage are)?

49
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:42:50 PM »

Though I thought it was fairly easy to grasp Plato without knowing his forebears.

If by "Plato" you mean "Apology, Crito, Phaedo and Republic" then probably.  Maybe even Meno.

It is pretty difficult to know what is going on in Gorgias, Parmenides, Sophist, Phaedrus, Statesman though.

50
General Off-Topic Board / Re: What Philosophers Must I Read?
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:37:02 PM »

For Plato I thought Republic was pretty accessible as well.  Dewey sticks out of that list like a sore thumb as does Foucault - both are incredibly demanding reads IMHO.

Also, for Marx, Capital is awesome...js ;)

Also, I think Hume is a must  :P


Yeah, I would start with James before Dewey.  Hey, at least I picked interviews for Foucault and not Order of Things! 

Hume is definitely a must, especially before some poor bastard sits down in her armchair and cracks open the Critique of Pure Reason ....

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