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Messages - fortook

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Transferring / Re: Have any Spring Transfers Heard Anything Back Yet?
« on: December 15, 2010, 12:23:45 PM »
Any school that allows you to transfer more than 30 credits allows spring transfers.  I think the ABA max for ABA approved school transfers is 45 credits.  I know Rutgers has a lot of spring transfers and I think GTLC does too.  I don't personally know anyone who transferred in the spring though.  I do know of a guy who transferred last spring to John Marshal with over 30 credits. I would like to hear their stories about it.

Transferring / Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
« on: December 07, 2010, 06:20:20 PM »
I don't know too much, I will tell you what I know.  I'd imagine that the OP knows more because he wants to practice in Can.  Firstly, Canada makes it incredibly difficult for foreign lawyers to practice in Can with residency restrictions, however, everything varies by province, just like in the states.  Secondly, in the US we get a JD, in Can it's a LLB- two different degrees.  If you went to a US law school they have a bar committee that evaluates your transcript class by class and tells you what you need to make up at a Can school.  Thirdly, and I am not entirely sure of the details, but Can attorneys have an apprenticeship like system where new law school grads and attorneys new to Can practice (even if they have been practicing in the US for 50 years) work under the supervision of a licensed attorney.  Maybe kind of like we do it in the States, but more formalized. 

Can. is mostly a common law country, like most of the US is common law, so the legal systems are similar.  But that's not to say they are not different.  I do know that it is easier for a Can lawyer to practice in the States than it is for a US lawyer to practice in Can.  If Cooley has a lot of Can students they probably have classes which have already been evaluated by the CBA.  That's not to say it isn't easier for Canadians to just go to a Can school if you can get a high enough LSAT score.  When I mentioned UDM I meant that in conjunction with a Can law school you can get an LLB in addition to your JD, thus bypassing the evaluation process and thus not being forced to take more classes after graduation, if you can even get into a Can law school for more courses.  I hope this helps.  I don't plan on practicing in Can (living in Quebec though would be nice, I admit) so my info might not be entirely accurate, just a gist.

Transferring / Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
« on: December 06, 2010, 11:48:19 AM »
Canada has a different legal education system.  I don't think you can get licensed to practice in Canada if you go to a US school and visa versa without an LLM.  Either go to a Canadian school or look into Detroit Mercy- they have a duel degree program with the US and Canada.  I looked into UDM because I am interested in Latin law.  They also have a degree program with a Mexican law school.  I can't remember which Canadian school they use for licensing purposes, but I know they can do it plus it's easy to get into and they have a decent reputation in MI.  Good luck.

Transferring / Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
« on: November 29, 2010, 11:50:34 AM »
Oh and yes I have heard of scholarships being negotiable.  A buddy of mine was offered a higher grant amount not to transfer.  He transferred anyway, however.  A smart dean will know that the students are both an obligation and a potential asset to the school.  It will very greatly by school.

Transferring / Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
« on: November 29, 2010, 11:47:10 AM »
A lucid, intelligent, well thought out response Hamilton.  Touche.

I love you.

Transferring / Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
« on: November 29, 2010, 09:25:40 AM »
Are you saying he should reconsider law school in general because he goes to Cooley?  Wow so harsh even for a religious ranking follower. 

OP- he is right though with the other schools in MI like WSU and Detroit Mercy.  Both are much stronger regionally and your job chances would be better in MI if you transfer.  I don't think its true that Cooley is a joke, but people like Hamilton are everywhere, including MI firms and won't give you a chance coming out of Cooley.  Good luck and stay in school. Hamilton is a deucher for saying what he said  with the only thing he knows about you is that you go to Cooley.  What a deucher.  Your are top 10%, I doubt he is.  And again, wow what a deucher.

Did you get in somewhere?  And if so, did you have to start all over?

Transferring / Re: 505 Letter-dismissed student-Transferring to a new school
« on: September 16, 2010, 08:28:19 PM »
I am in the same boat.  I got several bad grades my second semester and was academically dismissed.  I asked my dean for a 505 letter and as I expected, he said "nope".  They won't help me go to another school.

If you had a decent guy or gal as dean at your former school you may have a shot.  He/she may help you out.  I appealed to his sense of "karma", but as I expected he refused to help me and I knew a 505 letter is not typically given.  There is no obligation to do so and don't bet on it. 

You will probably have to wait the standard 2 years per ABA rules.  Do what I am doing- get a master's in something you enjoy and apply to another school for fall 2012.

In my case I ended up in a lower tier school that dismissed 40% of their 1L class.  Now that I know this, I am saddened that I ended up going there.  I wish I knew better, but that's life- live and learn.  So I am going to take the LSAT again and apply to schools that try to help their classes succeed versus the "weeding out" approach that some law school use to up their bar passage rates. 

There are schools that have attrition rates as high as 40% and school with rates as low as 0%.  I can not stress this enough- pay attention to attrition rates. I simply did not know some of the inner workings and how different some schools can be.  I probably can apply to my former school after 1 year, rather than 2- there were so many people in the 1L and 2L classes there that were on their "second go"- creepy ehe?- should have seen that as red flags after my first week there.  Most schools, I believe, allow for this.  So if you want to deal with your old school again you may only have to wait 1 year.  As for myself, I do not.  Do your research and you can end up alright. 

I have been researching quite a bit on what students do after academic dismissal.  It must happen often.  There are maybe 7 or 8 schools, if not more, that have 30% plus academic attrition rates.  That's hundreds of student per year.  Surprisingly, there is little that I have been able to find.  Or maybe it's not so surprising due to the embarrassment involved.  I did look at the some writings from the author of Dismissed Law Student Essays available for free on line at  They are not very useful to either of us.  The author was dismissed and decided not to go back.  She mostly writes about her emotional state, not practical tangible information.  It is more of a pep talk.  Not a how to. 

If you find something in your own research, please post it.  I will do the same.  Good luck.


Sorry OP.  This is the second time I started an off topic debate.  None of this is helping you.  I didn't mean to start these conversations.  Please forgive me. 

I did have a thought that may help you, however.  Contact the organization: Lawyers Helping Lawyers- they may know if you can go to law school at all and when you could apply.  They deal with lawyers that have substance abuse problems, not admissions issues, but there may be lawyers there that went to law school with a situation similar to yours.   I'm not saying you an addict or being judgmental or condemning (you will have enough of that to deal with- see the hate in the earlier posts) or any of that jazz- just a place you can go get info.  Once again I wish you luck.

I forgot to mention in all this hoop la that I don't think you can attend or even apply to law school while on probation.  Which means you will have to wait three years anyway.  Check this.  I might be wrong, but I don't think so.  Good luck.

Push comes to shove you may look into an non accredited or state bar approved law school.  Of course you will only be able to practice in that state, which sucks I know, but you gotta do what you gotta do.  And depending on the area you live in this might be a doable option. Mass, Bama, Tenn and Cali have the most. Also, the for profit ABA schools, which may not be around too much longer (I hope, for profit education is kinda creepy and parasitic), are notorious for letting in everyone because they want the "business".  You still get a degree though.  :)

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