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Messages - Hamilton

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Master of Jurisprudence
« on: September 01, 2010, 07:54:21 AM »
I am down on law school and echo sentiments that I have seen others post - unless you go to a T1, get a great scholarship, or truly have your heart set on being a lawyer, I think law school is a terrible investment.  Law school is not even a ticket to stability - forget wealth.  In fact, with a huge loan, law school could be a one-way ticket to financial ruin.  Record numbers of JDs are being produced and the job market is not expanding. 

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not attacking non-T1s, I am stating the reality that they are going to have a much harder time landing work because of the pecking order within the legal community.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Class Statistics?
« on: August 30, 2010, 05:54:52 AM »
I was really surprised that he gave up the ghost so easily.  I have suspected all along he was goofing, but I expected some fireworks and denials.  He actually did it quite well.

No more pickle? He'll probably just create a new account and keep starting drama until he gets banned again.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Class Statistics?
« on: August 27, 2010, 09:26:35 AM »
You realize he is a 100% fake personna just sporting on these boards right?

Well hopefully your parent's die simultaneously so a goldigger doesn't come along and cut you out of the will (I hope that does not happen to you in all honesty, but I have seen that happen to a number of cocky rich kids and with 0 work experience and no parent's to back you up, you may have to get a menial job. Probably won't happen and you will be the greatest human being on earth and the bar won't care that you are violating ethics, you are sonofapickle. If you go into the stock market and do insider trading what does the SEC know?  Nothing you are sonofapickle the GREATEST!

Current Law Students / Re: Law School Ethical Violation?
« on: August 26, 2010, 05:53:29 AM »
Ditto - this post sums it up.  My advice to your friend would be to drop it.  He needs to choose the hill that he is willing to fight and die on very carefully - this is not it.

What is unfair is not necessarily unlawful or unethical.  Your post asked whether there was a law school ethical violation.  The answer is no.

I think this about sums it up.  "Fair" is a concept built on the assumption that there is an outside authority there to enforce justice in social interactions.  We learn this as children when parents not only tell us to play fair, but make us play fair.  A complaint of "that's not fair" is essentially a plea to some authority to fix the injustice.

Adult life, however, is mostly free of "fair," and indeed one of the lessons of adolescence is to abandon "fair" as an objective standard and instead internalize it as a personal guiding principle.

Your friend should view this experience as a valuable lesson in real life.  Expecting an outside authority to swoop in and undo the injustice is a futile remnant of youthful thinking.

You got that right!

Takeing advice from anyone who calls himself "stinkypants" might not be the best start for your young career.  ::)

Good luck.  Life is too short to be doing something you do not truly love.

thanks guy, i appreciate your thoughtful replies.
gonna take a month long vaca in europe soon so i'll think long and hard about whats next.

many thanks!!!

I am sorry for your loss.

I went to LS at about 37 while enjoying a succesfull career.  I mainly finished law school b/c it helped with my current career, I was getting a great scholarship, and I wanted to finish what I started - not out of some passion for law.  Intellectually it was an interesting experience, but the prospect of actually practicing as an attorney became very unappealing to me given my current professional situation.  Given the option, I would not do it over again.  When we were in our mid-20s and burning to get ahead in the world we actually enjoyed putting in prutal hours on thankless work so we could climb the ladder.  When I graduated law school in my early 40s I though 'I have already paid my dues once, no way am I going to go back to the bottom, put in 70+ hours a week on low-tier tasks, and do it eagerly with a smile on my face while competing with people half my age whom I have little in common with.'  In LS at 37 you are something of an outsider - think what it will be like at a firm reporting to partners 10 years younger than you.

If you worked at a top Wall Street firm, my guess is that you do not do things half-@$$ed.  LS is a big time commitment and a lot of hard work if you want to be in the top % of your class.  If you want to do it for intellectual stimulation - go for it.  But why pursue something that does not light a fire in your belly?  Do some research, there are a ton or articles and web sites regarding the over-supply of lawyers, unemployment in the field, and increasing trend in the number of JDs.  Why become a part of this mess?

Instead of law, why not think about a career that truly intests you and actually benefits society?  Build upon what you already have and get back in the game.  Getting back into Wall Street after 3 years off will be a lot easier than getting into law by way of law school started at 37.   

EXCELLENT point - there is nothing magical about polysci or history that helps with law school.  I went in with a strong science background and work experience, which helped for environmental and admin law.  Lawyers need to understand more than the law, they need to understand the concepts behind the law.  For example, if your interest lies in finance and international trade, that can lead you to a field of law in that area.  If you are a conservationist and environmentalist at heart - environmental law could be the way to go.  Your specialty in law can parallel your other interests. 

Morten makes a great point, pursue your interest as if you may not go to law school - you are then prepared to work in an area that interests you, or you are better prepared to associate that interest with the practice of law.

Don't worry about which major is best for law school - instead worry about which major you enjoy and can do well in.  More importantly, worry about how your chosen major will prepare you for life if/when you decide NOT to go to law school.  English, polysci, and history are popular majors for law school (foolishly, in my opinion), but none of those provide easy alternate career paths.  Science, engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. - those are studies and degrees that will do you well if you do not go to law school, and will also help you if you do.  (Although a separate, perhaps somewhat amusing, subject would be why I think the engineering mindset provides a challenge during and after law school). [/plug]

There is a light year between your perspective on life as a JR in HS to undergraduate degree.  Only you can answer whether you truly want to be a lawyer, or will be able to answer that question in 5 or 6 years.  You will have experiences in college that may change your goals and you may decide to pursue another field or area of study.  Find your interest and passion and go for it.  It is tough to find a job as a lawyer out there right now, the market has changed -- there are a lot of JDs being produced and the number is increasing.  It's basic supply-and-demand.  Yes it is tough for everyone, but its especially hard for lawyers b/c of the extra investment made to go to law school - can be upwards of $100,000.  If you decide to go to LS after grad, go for the highest ranked you can get into - despite what others say, it matters.  The folks who say LS rank does not matter are the ones who have gone to lower ranked schools.  People from lower tier law schools have a harder time finding jobs that will allow their student loans to be repayed.

Personally, I will disuade my kids from law school unless it is a burning passion for them.

Current Law Students / Re: A typical law school class session?
« on: July 15, 2010, 11:57:23 AM »
For me, it worked well to first read the professional brief, then read the case (skimming some parts but identifying the same relevent points in the case that were identified in the brief), and then adding some notes to the brief.  I think its important to actually read the case, even if skimming it.

Are these a better investment of time rather than briefing the case from scratch?  Would it be better to peruse the canned case brief and use it as an outline and follow that up with my own case brief?  Thanks again either way.

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