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Messages - Cicero

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Nova Law School- Any good??
« on: June 13, 2010, 03:29:39 PM »
That is certainly disheartening. :(  The economy is definitely in terrible shape right now and it doesn't seem to be getting better. I currently go to a T-4 and the job opportunity issue is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to transfer.

For med school and veterinary school you generally have to have a biochem, chem, or biology degree to apply for the program (and I know for vet you generally need more of the biochem type degree). The med people take the MCAT, like we take the LSAT.  It seems like the "traditional background" degree is political science or a more general pre-law designation, such as pre-law/history, which are offered at most schools. Where I go to LS, most of the people seem to have polysci-like degrees.

Thank you.  :)

Florida Coastal

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: June 13, 2010, 01:15:44 PM »
Well, I had to talk to the Dean at my school before they would release my transcript, but they don't bargain about scholarships anymore. I heard that they used to do that during the discussion, but now they have a set scholarship amount they will give you based on your rank. Unfortunately, no full rides there.  :(

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: June 13, 2010, 12:08:53 PM »
bigs5068, that's definitely true, a lot of the students do end up going to T-4s because of the scholarship money. It's not just because of lower LSAT scores. The T-4s give out a lot of money. If you do well the 1st year, they are also likely to give you an even bigger scholarship.

I go to a T-25 and when we have visiting professors here they are terrible compared to the quality of education you get from the actual profs. The subject matter may be the same, but that doesn't mean you learn it as well. That's one difference.

Exactly true.  Many Tier 4 schools don't even want to hire other Tier 4 graduates.  You should listen to people on this site about Tier 3 and Tier 4 schools.  Sure, people are having a hard time finding a job with all types of degrees but, there is a big difference between a Doctor who has an M.D. from a lower-ranked medical school and a Lawyer who graduates from a lower-ranked law school.  Doctors have much more stringent admissions policies than Lawyers have when it comes to further education.  Law schools will take people with various degrees whereas medical schools expect you to have a certain amount of math and science courses before even applying.  Let's not pretend that a tier 4 law school is anything like a lower ranked medical school.  Many tier 4 law schools are just paper mills that are out to take your money.  As far as attrition rate, you can find out how many people actually failed out. Don't waste your money.  Go get a graduate degree or a something else.  Stay far away from Tier 4 schools.

You know, there is a big difference between what doctors and lawyers do. Of course doctors need a much more specific undergraduate focus before going to med school. I'm not sure what specific focus you believe you need to become a lawyer, and I find your comment about that slightly offensive as someone who doesn't have the so called "traditional background" for becoming a lawyer. My undergraduate degree in anthropology in no way hindered my ability to comprehend the law and to analyze. Furthermore, I did take 1 class during my time as an undergraduate with the so-called traditional background students. They all kept talking about how it was the hardest class and teacher in their degree program, but it was really easy compared to my classes. Based on my experience, the undergraduate degree itself doesn't matter. What matters is the student's ability to understand the law and apply it.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: June 13, 2010, 11:42:55 AM »
HardWorking, I disagree that it is a waste of money to go to a T-4 law school. It's only a waste of money if you go to law school because you aren't sure what to do next or if you are not willing to put in the work. (If that is the case, then it is a waste of money no matter what T it is.) Yes, going to a T-4 may mean you have an uphill battle in getting good summer work during school and finding a job after you graduate, especially if you want to move out of the region, but lots of people are able to make it work for them. Furthermore, you can get an excellent legal education at a T-4 school. It's not as if T-4 means poor quality teachers. As to the "disconnect", well, there are a lot of smart people who don't fair so well on standardized testing, so they end up going to T-4 schools.

Like bigs5068, I am also curious about your hostility toward T-4 schools. Is it based on your own personal experience or is it because you went to a T-1 and shun all those in the T-4 bracket?

Maybe it's overkill, but I read and briefed all of the cases, but how much of a brief depended on the prof and how much detail they were looking for. Some of my profs wanted little details before going into the important parts. I had one class where it seemed like we focused on the irrelevant facts and minute details of the case a lot of the time, like was person wearing a green scarf or what color was the car, more than the facts pertinent to the law at hand and the analysis. However, that prof didn't seem to notice when people got things wrong a lot of the time--like one time where someone presented the completely wrong case and the prof never noticed. However, sometimes if the student didn't know those little details, the prof could get very upset.

I did use the canned briefs sometimes to review or if I was confused, but for me they were a supplement and not a replacement for the real thing.

I read Law School Confidential before my 1L year, but I don't know how much it prepared me. I can tell you the 1st couple weeks felt like being tossed in the middle of a  forest and having to find my way back because you have to figure out how to read the cases, figure out how to study, do a ton of reading, stress about the Socratic method, etc. (plus I was doing a 4 hour per day commute the 1st 6 weeks). However, everyone in my section seemed to be lost at first. After the first 2-3 weeks, you start figuring it out. Then, at some point it all just clicks and you know what to do.

If I could do it over again, I would probably read some in the E & E's or Gilbert's, but not much. You don't want to get burned out before you start. If you want to do well in law school it will be a bit of a mental marathon, especially at the end of the semester, so you don't want to tire yourself out before you start.

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