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Messages - CooleyGrad

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21
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooleys attrition rate
« on: April 21, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »
ok. So did you see transfers the first term or only after the full 1L was up?

Most schools require to to apply to transfer at a certain credit level.  For my section (we took 4 at a time) it was during the 3rd semester.  BUT most people could only take 3 courses their 3rd term because 4 would have pushed them over the min/max you can have to apply for a transfer.

President Leduc has addressed the student body in the past about the need to curb transfers:

" Of course, we wish that we did not have to increase tuition, but the reality is that the cost of operation escalates and enrollment varies.  The May 2009 class came in below the usual size, and transfers remain too high.  Our operating revenue is tuition-based, so tuition must be set based on projected enrollment numbers. [...]  It is in everyone's interest to recruit new first-year students and to retain them in the second and third year."

That was from an email sent out June 23, 2009 which explained the hike in tuition.

To directly answer your question, not as many people transfer out that actually want to.  You have to consider that in order for another school to take you, they have to turn down another transfer (likely from a more respected school) or a new applicant.  

The transfers in my section that I knew of and remember included: Hofstra,UT Knoxville, MSU, Buffalo, Cumberland, and Florida State.

22
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooleys attrition rate
« on: April 21, 2010, 04:45:04 PM »
ok, it is odd how the ABA don't break attrition down into catagories to make it easier and more accurate readings.

Well it is all a matter of how you spin the numbers. What term are you in?   I started in the Michaelmas term and the first few times we got grades back 1/4 of the class would disappear.  We used to jokingly bet about the difference in the occupied seats in our classes between week 3 and week 4 (once grades posted).

I have yet to see a cooley graduation class over the size of 400 and though I am sure that there have been some, there couldn't have been many.  I graduated with just over 300 students -- my incoming class was over 1,100 students.

This guy doesn't go to cooley. His post was a flame.

Right -- I just pulled all that out of my ass for fun --

I just finished my externship and will walk May 22

23
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooley Exam Software
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:58:57 PM »
I was just wondering if any current students had any idea what exam software TCLS uses?

Extegrity Exam4
http://www.exam4.com/

24
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooleys attrition rate
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:54:08 PM »
ok, it is odd how the ABA don't break attrition down into catagories to make it easier and more accurate readings.

Well it is all a matter of how you spin the numbers.  What term are you in?  I started in the Michaelmas term and the first few times we got grades back 1/4 of the class would disappear.  We used to jokingly bet about the difference in the occupied seats in our classes between week 3 and week 4 (once grades posted).

I have yet to see a cooley graduation class over the size of 400 and though I am sure that there have been some, there couldn't have been many.  I graduated with just over 300 students -- my incoming class was over 1,100 students.

25
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooleys attrition rate
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:39:06 PM »
so your school lies to its students. How's that "helping the school image"?

That info is  out of date, I'll trust the up to date info on campus.

Reminder me Troll where do you go to school?

That info is not out of date, it is the most up to date legally reportable information available... the ABA (accrediting body) bases all credentialing decisions for Cooley on the above numbers.  Any other stats are pure speculation tailored by admissions staff looking to recruit students.  Cooley will have an attrition rate in excess of 25% when it reports to the ABA this Spring... they always do.  I'm not knocking the school, but the facts and historical statistics don't support what you are asserting.  I'd bet you anything that the attrition rate will be 30%+ in the Spring numbers.  I hope the program does retain more students, but that just isn't a goal of their business model.  They admit massive numbers and are content with high attrition.  There is really no debate to be had here.  The numbers just don't lie... 317 flunked out.

The 2% number (wherever it came from) is entirely wrong.

Agreed. 

And why would you trust a school's word over that of an independent party (i.e. LSAC).  Having recently graduated from Cooley, it is hard to imagine that a student could attend without noticing the alarming attrition rate.  It is what it is.

Whoa -- simmer down.  I never said Cooley lies.  I think that you can calculate attrition several ways.  In order to get the numbers that you reference you would have to not include nonacademic related attrition.  Further, if a student is put on AP and decides to bail because it isn't worth the uphill battle -- that is considered nonacademic attrition as well because the school didn't actually dismiss you.

So in my opinion the attrition rate should reflect the total number of students that leave regardless of the circumstance.  And the numbers you mentioned probably only account for the students that have been placed on AP, dismissed, given a second chance to pull their GPA up to a 2.0, failed, and were dismissed again.

26
Michigan State U / Re: It has been awhile....
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:22:29 PM »
so  you think they found it easy compared to cooley?


I had a couple of friends that transferred because they thought MSU sounded better.  They coasted through the program after enduring the 1st 3 terms at Cooley.
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I wouldn't say it was "easy" -- I don't think any law school curriculum that I know of is "easy" -- but they didn't go as in-depth in several courses as we did.

The main person I am referring to roomed with one of my best friends that went to cooley.  We compared Taxation and Constitutional Law II material and they covered in their whole semester what took us 4-5 weeks.  Now it may have just been those profs that he had, because I certainly doubt that MSU's whole curriculum covers 1/3 of cooley's but that was just what I understood.

He did say that 3 terms at cooley made him work harder than anyone he knew his first couple of terms at MSU.  Mainly he was used to outlining after week one for fear of becoming part of the cooley attrition statistics... but people were more relaxed at MSU.

27
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Hofstra v. Pace
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:19:25 PM »
Does anyone know what the general consensus is regarding which school (Pace or Hofstra) is a better law school?

Hofstra -- I had a buddy that transferred there from Cooley and really enjoyed his experience. It is also moving up slowing the the US News rankings.

Have you visited both campuses?  I would strongly encourage you to do so, because it is he only way to get a "true feel" for the schools.  The differences between the to are marginal -- so I would advise you to select the one that you believe you will have the most success at.

28
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: cooley in the fall
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:16:34 PM »
I also am awaiting a decision.. since early february when my file was complete. I'm in the range to get a 25% scholarship based on the lsat so hopefully should come soon. I'm also planning on the ann arbor campus.

Cooley is considered a liability on a resume. It is considered to be a joke.

Mind listing the names of the partners and firms that told you this?  I was concerned that moving back to my home state would be an issue but, generally speaking, no one knows anything about cooley here.  Besides, it has been my experience that firms are more interested the work that you actually do for them.

29
Michigan State U / Re: It has been awhile....
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:12:19 PM »
the place where those who can't make it at cooley end up.  :D


No new posts on here but I was curious about what everyone thinks of MSU right now? Any comments? Job prospectives? Advice? Thanks!

I had a couple of friends that transferred because they thought MSU sounded better.  They coasted through the program after enduring the 1st 3 terms at Cooley.

30
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: US NEWS RANKINGS leak (2011)
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:08:35 PM »
Yea I agree, unless language is a prerequisite for a specific job that is all I was trying to say.

A Cooley Grad could be fluent in 5 languages and have a M.D. if he goes into competition for a real estate law job with someone with 0 work experience that graduates from Harvard Law, the Harvard Grad will win. This is because speaking 5 languages and having a M.D. are irrelevant to real estate law and Harvard beats Cooley 99.9% of the time..

Depends on the real estate market -- international development gigs could love that diversity.  But the Ivy League tends to beat out just about everyone wouldn't you agree?

I think you could say the same of a UT law grad just because of the prestige of Harvard.  Obviously there is a large gap in he degree that Harvard would trump Cooley and the degree it would trump UT -- but just sayin'.

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