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Messages - CooleyGrad

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1
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: US NEWS RANKINGS leak (2011)
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:10:48 PM »
so"philosophy"....basicly they BS instead of teaching you the facts. gotcha.

I do understand that you're doing your very best to be a troll, but I have to say, you're starting to be a living, talking, breathing confirmation about every stereotype and joke I've ever heard about Cooley.

They don't even go to cooley...

2
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: cooley in the fall
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:09:28 PM »


I applaud your immense ability to pidgin-hold, limit, and restrict yourself as a Cooley graduate before you have even sat for a single class.  Your classification of Cooley graduates as primarily "public service lawyers and small firm community advocates" is incorrect and frankly insulting.

If these are your true mental impressions, then I strongly recommend (as a graduate of Cooley) that you take CJScolia's advice and not attend Cooley, because you will be eaten alive.

There is nothing wrong with someone going to Cooley, as they do with every school, wanting to be a public defender or work in a small firm, but to reduce "99%" of the graduates to that is factually inaccurate and shameful.

Your opportunities are no lessor than any other 3rd or 4th tier school.  In most situations, after you have been in the "real world" for 2-4 years no one even cares where you went to school, unless your firm happens to be fundamentally involved in an alumni association.  The firms just want to know how you will make them money.


Congrats, you've joined the ranks of the attacking posters on LSN.. good job feel good now?  What I Said was that it is unlikely that a cooley grad would directly out of law school from Cooley with a JD be starting in a law firm making 100k plus. Just merely saying that going to Cooley or most any law school with that expectation would be misguided.  And, feel free to get the employment statistics from LSAC or Cooley career services. For faster reference I'll just quote lsac:

- 80% employed within 9 months
- 50% in firms (with a firm being anywhere from 1 attorney to hundreds in the office)
- 18% in business
- 13% in gov't
- 5.7% in public interest
- 4.2% as judicial clerks
- 3.7% in academia

Its just important to be realistic about the future before taking on the 3-4 years in any law school- even though there is the slim chance that you could land an amazing, high paying position as you suggest.

I do agree that after a few years yes where you went will be decreasingly important, and your experience as an attorney would be more important.

Additionally, if you really went to cooley you might want to be appreciative of the few people that choose not to trash the school.
[/quote]

I have zero appreciation for people that claim that cooley grads are limited to public service and small firms.  And am sorry that I am not bowing down before you because you only have mildly/moderately misinformed things to say about the school.  Seriously, give me a break.  Your own figures from the LSAC show 5.7% being employed in "public interest" which show that your original statements (now watered down) were grossly inaccurate.

I really think you are missing the point -- you haven't even stepped foot in the school and have the wrong attitude.  It not only will severely impair your ability to succeed at Cooley, but also reflects poorly on the school itself.

You are essentially settling before you have even been served with a petition/complaint -- whether you realize it or not.  Maybe you should appreciate the direction/advice of something that has already been down the road that you haven't even seen yet.

3
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Any feedback about Cooley Ann Arbor Campus
« on: April 23, 2010, 01:02:20 PM »
Quote
I came here because there is a board provided specifically for Cooley students -- does that make sense or is your understanding impaired by your bull-elitist stereotypes that you so obviously hold dear to your heart?


Seriously, what elitist stereotype am I advocating by merely pointing out that people are sometimes hostile to Cooley students on other boards? I'm glad Cooley students post here  :)

There's been a Cooley board for a long time, but never much traffic. I was only postulating that Cooley students were coming over here now because of prior (and current) hostility on other boards.

Your assumption is incorrect at least for me.  Though I enjoyed your picture of the pear with excellent teeth.

4
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Any feedback about Cooley Ann Arbor Campus
« on: April 23, 2010, 12:35:02 PM »
Quote
How come LSD has suddenly turned into Cooley central? Seems like every third post made here is about Cooley


A bunch of Cooley students and prospective Cooley students all joined at once for whatever reason. Other boards (TLS, xoxo) are not exactly welcoming to Cooley students, so I can see why they would come here.

Is this not the "Thomas M. Cooley" sub-board of the forum?  Speaking for myself, I came here because there is a board provided specifically for Cooley students -- does that make sense or is your understanding impaired by your bull-elitist stereotypes that you so obviously hold dear to your heart?

What are TLS and xoxo -- I only joined this board because I didn't know of any others.  There isn't as much activity here as I would have liked.

5
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: cooley in the fall
« on: April 23, 2010, 12:24:33 PM »
I'd just like to make a post on this thread.. As a student who will be attending Cooley- Ann Arbor in January on an honors scholarship.

I give no consideration to Cooley's rankings, I have not & will not even look at them. Frankly, I wish the school would stop publishing them and to be just another 4th tier law school- I too believe this would greatly raise the reputation of the school. Heck, maybe I can join a student group and make that happen lol.

Also, on to the employment aspect. It's absolutely right that Cooley grads will 99% of the time not get 100k + law jobs especially out of law school. However, getting 50-75k jobs as lawyers in  government, public interest, small firms, and in house counsel positions is just as likely as any other 4th or 3rd tier law school graduate. And, particularly for students on scholarship the available options shouldn't be as dismal.

I personally am turning down Widener part time for Cooley Ann Arbor considering both are 4th tier & Cooley will cost me half as much as Widener.

So, I will restate my main points here so this can be took in as proper context as possible:

1- Cooley's rankings are irrelevant & more than likely should be rid of.

2- Cooley grads have a fair shot at jobs that are typically available to graduates of 3rd & 4th tier law schools, particularly in Michigan & the midwest.

3- Cooley can be an affordable option in this bad economy- possibly an attractive option compared to other 4th tier schools charging double what Cooley does for tuition. I would surely take Cooley over Detroit-Mercy or Dayton.

And finally 4th- Yeah, Cooley grads are 99% of the time not getting big law/100k + jobs out of law school & they shouldn't expect to. Cooley will also tell you to plan financially with this understood.

I hope people will start regarding Cooley for the 4th tier school that it is that can produce public service lawyers and small firm community advocates.

Good luck to everyone out there with your apps & legal career.

I applaud your immense ability to pidgin-hold, limit, and restrict yourself as a Cooley graduate before you have even sat for a single class.  Your classification of Cooley graduates as primarily "public service lawyers and small firm community advocates" is incorrect and frankly insulting.

If these are your true mental impressions, then I strongly recommend (as a graduate of Cooley) that you take CJScolia's advice and not attend Cooley, because you will be eaten alive.

There is nothing wrong with someone going to Cooley, as they do with every school, wanting to be a public defender or work in a small firm, but to reduce "99%" of the graduates to that is factually inaccurate and shameful.

Your opportunities are no lessor than any other 3rd or 4th tier school.  In most situations, after you have been in the "real world" for 2-4 years no one even cares where you went to school, unless your firm happens to be fundamentally involved in an alumni association.  The firms just want to know how you will make them money.

6
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: cooley in the fall
« on: April 23, 2010, 11:45:06 AM »
I think the extra ranking system is silly too -- that is both of our opinions -- but since being back in my home state I haven't met anyone that has even heard of the alternate ranking system.  So please answer my question -- what are the names of the partners/shareholders and their firms that have told you this -- otherwise it is just another opinion on a message board.

I think you can assume that's exactly what it is. I can't imagine anyone sitting in a job interview asking; "Well, what if I went to Cooley? Would you hire me then?". I can only speak for the firm I'll be working at this fall, and I don't have the impression they're talking bad about any schools. There's probably 150 schools they're not going to hire someone from, but I really can't see them smack talking about any of them. That's more what law students do. Law firm partners are generally grown ups, and act accordingly.

Well the implication was that there was some sort of "smack talk" -- but I agree with your revised approach. However, I do disagree with you in regards to firms not considering anyone from 150 schools because of their ranking/prestige. Take Texas Wesleyan, in Ft. Worth, Texas, it is a 4th tier school.  You are telling me that if I were to graduate -- lets say 4th overall in my class -- that Jones Day, Thompson & Knight,  Baker Botts, Vinson & Elkins, Fulbright & Jaworski, and Hughes & Luce wouldn't consider me at all?  I have a very hard time agreeing with that.

Additionally, my final term at Cooley, I was able to receive academic credit for a full-time and unpaid externship with a firm in my home state.  I never even had to interview for a job because the firm was able to see how sharped my skill set was and how ready I was "out of the box" that they didn't give a damn where I went to law school.  I think it is something that Cooley does mainly because the majority of the students that graduate don't practice in Michigan.  Everyone attorney that I have explained the process to, including my uncle who is a partner at a "BigLaw firm", has claimed that all school should adopt a externship/clinical program like Cooley's.

The great thing is that when you are offering 40/hrs a week of unpaid slave-labor -- you can get your foot into just about any door you can imagine, and for myself, and my close friends that went to Cooley, that is all we needed to get jobs.  

Full disclosure though, I have a friend who did the externship in FL at a DA's office and they will be volunteering their time after the bar with the office in return for a paid assistant DA's job once they pass the bar.  The office apparently doesn't hire people without their actual bar card.  But this really isn't a Cooley issue -- the other 5 of my friends that I am graduating with have jobs lined up.  As for the rest of the class -- who knows.  But I always come back to the point that Cooley gives people the chance and tools that you need if you are willing to kill yourself for three years.

For most of us it is a means to and ends.  And the ends are nearly what you have made them out to be.

I didn't proof read this -- have to run to court --- hope it makes sense.

MODFICATION: K&L Gates -- my bad.  I was just listing them off of the top of my head and forgot that they voted to combine firms.

7
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Cooley in the fall
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:20:00 AM »
and if a cooley grad applied to one of those paralegals (when no one else would hire them) you think the company wouldn't be shitting themselves with excitment to have a lawyer and not just a secretary doing that job?

That's exactly what I'm saying, yes.

So your saying that 199 out of 200 people that graduate from Cooley don't crack 6 figures in their life. ??? ???

At the same relative point in their career? I doubt it, but I don't really care as I'm not at Cooley.

I started at 83k with a mid-sized firm here in my home state. 27 attorneys -- damn same that I will forever be limited to making an additional 17k a year...

8
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: cooley in the fall
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:17:38 AM »
Depends on if you're scared of a courtroom or not. If you are a lawyer and a CPA you can help your clients out of a hell of a lot more pickles then just getting them to the halfway point and passing the buck onto someone else. You can charge a fee that reflects that too. If a CPA tries that, they go to prison

You're starting to make less and less sense for every post you make.

If you have a law degree, but work as an accountant, you cannot go to court. And why the @#!* would anyone want their accountant to go to court anyway? That makes a grand total of zero sense.

Man, I don't mean to be a buzz kill, but you are valuating a law degree at least 20 times more than it's worth.

Mind listing the names of the partners and firms that told you this?  I was concerned that moving back to my home state would be an issue but, generally speaking, no one knows anything about cooley here.  Besides, it has been my experience that firms are more interested the work that you actually do for them.

Cooley's main claim to fame (or infamy) is the publishing of their own rankings, claiming to be the 12th best law school in the country. In fact, if they had the common sense to not do that poo, nobody would really give a poo, Cooley would be "just another law school" down the rankings. But because they're trying to, quite literally, deceive people into attending their school, they get a horrible reputation.

I think the extra ranking system is silly too -- that is both of our opinions -- but since being back in my home state I haven't met anyone that has even heard of the alternate ranking system.  So please answer my question -- what are the names of the partners/shareholders and their firms that have told you this -- otherwise it is just another opinion on a message board.

9
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Cooleys attrition rate
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:14:20 AM »
Yeah cooley does require more than other schools from what I've been told. So if I transfer it'd be like going from sprinting to jogging you think?

As far as the grueling pace -- my experience leads me to say yes.  While there may not be competition from ivy league students -- it is an absolute sweatshop.

10
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Hofstra v. Pace
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:12:37 AM »
When push comes to shove, there's not much difference between the two. Visit the campuses, go where you think you'll enjoy yourself the most.

+1 -- As I said above

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