Law School Discussion

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Messages - Cher1300

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91
Non-Traditional Students / Re: Part-time programs/ commuters
« on: May 15, 2012, 05:55:29 PM »
I have to agree.  I work full-time and commute three nights a week approximately 1 hour each way.   I live with my boyfriend and don't have children so I honestly can't imagine how difficult it would be to have kids on top of school and work.  If can quit your job, you should.  Law school really is all-consuming.  My boyfriend has been really great about giving me time and space to study, but the wear and tear on you will be especially difficult with kids.  Good luck!

92
General Board / Re: 1L Commuting- Need your opinions
« on: May 14, 2012, 07:22:52 PM »
Unbiased, it does sound a bit odd to me that you would rather go into more debt and spend your retirement money on a legal education for your daughter who is just kind of stomping her feet and saying no.  Save your money.  Since you were going to lease her a car anyway, why not just do that, let her commute and save yourself a few bucks?  Unless you are worried that her boyfriend will interfere with her studies, in which case, don't pay for law school for her.   I appreciate you want what is best for your daughter, but spending all your retirement so she can pout about not living with her boyfriend doesn't seem very practical to me.  If she really wants to be a lawyer, she will whether she lives with her boyfriend or not.  However, if you are pushing her to go by offering to pay for everything, she is going to flunk out.  So don't waste your time.  Law school is hard already, but if she doesn't really want it, she'll never make it past her first year - trust me. 

93
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Whittier vs. Cal Western
« on: May 14, 2012, 06:55:43 PM »
Just FYI, La Verne is no longer ABA approved because of really bad bar passage rates.  I'm currently at Western State and we have  few students who tranferred.  Just letting you know in case you were looking for an ABA school!  :)

94
Job Search / Re: For all those who cry about our jobs stats......
« on: May 14, 2012, 05:50:44 PM »
I have to say also, that as an employer, there are two major problems I see with recent grads coming out of college.

1.  They have very little work experience while in college.  Although I do not expect a student to work much during college years, I am looking for SOMETHING on their resume other than a 4.0 GPA.  Sorry, but work will get you more work.  I went to college and worked to pay myself through school.  Sure, it was less expensive at the time, but the point is, even while working I managed a good GPA and still had time to party.  In the 17 years since I've graduated, I see more and more parents coddling thier kids and thinking they should not work because they need to keep up their GPA to land their first job.  This might be true for the science industries, but a liberal arts major or creative writing major with a 4.0 is not that impressive without some type of work history.  I want to know that this person can handle the stress of even a fast-food place or restaurant and has the ability to show up on time.  Parents need to realize that the people hiring their children also went to college and a major like creative writing does not require hours and hours of study.  We are looking for some type of work ethic.

2.  They are not taking low paying jobs because they feel entitled to be making more money.  I've noticed an entitlement with some undergrads that they should be making 40K a year right off the bat.  I realize this is not a lot of money, however, when a college grad does nothing for a year because they feel above taking certain jobs, that is also a red flag for me.  Again, work will get you more work.  Maybe people worry that putting a fast-food place on your resume will hurt, but I beg to differ.  Now, I can't speak for every other employer out there, but if I have to choose between someone who worked at Burger King for the last year with a 3.2 gpa versus one with a 4.0 gpa and no work experience, I'm going to hire the BK kid.  I'm looking for a strong work ethic and a desire to work.  If you stayed at home depending on mommy and daddy for the last year without doing some type of work, it insinuates that either you won't do certain tasks required for your job or that you may not even want to work.  Everyone has to pay their dues at some point.  How can I possibly give someone a chance at an entry level job when I don't know if they can even hold down a job?   

I realize that we are still in a recession and when we have a job available, I get hundreds of resumes.  However, there has definitely been a shift in perception among young graduates about what they should be doing and a shift in the parents perceptions as to thinking a small job during college is somehow going to be disastrous for their kids.  It is simply not the case and I don't think I'm the only person out there that feels this way.

95
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: am i screwed?
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:59:43 PM »
You may not be screwed, but with a 2.4 GPA there are some things you should consider before going if you do get accepted.
I attend a T4.  While it may be easy to get in, the attrition rates are high because they are admitting students with either low LSAT's or low GPA's that either shouldn't be in law school or just don't want to put in the hours of study.  My situation was the opposite of yours.  A good GPA, but a lower LSAT score. 
Law school is definitely doable, and many people succeed but it is a lot of work and takes up a lot of time - especially for those of us trying to prove ourselves at a T4.  I am currently in my second semester and we lost about 16% of the class and will loose more after this semester.  The people who did not return were mostly people who didn't put in extra time for study. 
A 2.4 doesn't mean you're not smart, but admissions committees will want to know why it's not higher.  You will not have the time you did in undergrad to party, go to concerts, etc.  There is a real misconception with some about the actual amount of work that is expected of you.  So ask yourself if you really are prepared to give up happy hour, and your Saturday nights out til 4am.  It's not that you have NO free time, but there is very little free time and this reality for T4 students usually does them in.  The first year is overwhelming because you really don't know what you are doing and your goal should be to make it to your next semester - which is harder than you think.  It really is a marathon and once you get back your first exam you'll see exactly what I mean.  If you really are ready and willing to put the hours in, then go for it.  But before you waste money on your first semester, you should have a long talk with yourself about whether or not you really want to be a lawyer and what you are willing/not willing to sacrifice to get there.  Good luck!

96
This actually sounds like a scam to me.  An online job offer to a chef in Thailand?  Really?  The employer couldn't find a single Chef here in the states that can cook Thai food?  How did the Chef know the employer was legit?  There is no talk about him being flown out to meet the employer or to have him cook for the employer. 

Sounds like the employer can probably keep the money because I don't think the employer is real.  Lots of scams out there promising work to people overseas but first, "send us some money."   Then all communication stops.  Sorry, but this doesn't sound real to me.

97
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Non-Bar Law Degree
« on: January 18, 2012, 12:57:34 PM »
My two cents whether anyone cares or not would be this:  Do your homework!!  If you have to go to a non-aba school, at least make sure it's state approved so you can take the bar.  I've seen a couple of posts where someone went to a non-aba in a state where they are not allowed to take the bar exam?  That is a MAJOR scam.  I'm in California that has many state bar approved schools, some online, some not, but you are allowed to take the bar.  The pass rate is low for the online schools, but at least you have the opportunity.   Honestly, I'm surprised there are non-aba schools in states that don't allow you to sit for the bar.  Isn't that the point?  If you couldn't get into an ABA school, why spend time and money on a school that isn't at least state approved? 

98
I just finished my first semester and felt the same way.  It does take a bit to figure out the best way to study, but it also depends on what your professors are looking for in your exams.  Really, that is probably the most difficult part.  Different professors are looking for different things on their exams.  I read a couple of books myself, but found the best thing to do was meet with the professors with practice exams and outlines.   To give you an idea, one professor was adamant about briefing and expected the holdings of specific cases on the exams, whereas, another just preferred we book brief and learn the black letter law.  4lawschools.com have commercial briefs you can look at to get an idea of how to brief and what to look for.   Really though, when I look at back at my briefs from the beginning of last semester and compare them to the briefs I did at the end, they were pretty awful.  You'll get a groove as time goes on, but be sure to do all your reading and really try and understand the cases, etc. even if you don't have time to brief them. 
People will tell you they went through a semester without briefing a single case, used commercial outlines etc., and got great grades.  You may be able to get away with it later, but don't risk it until you're absolutely sure you can understand the material.  Shortcuts are great, but I didn't use any help until I figured out how to do them on my own.   
I stuck to a strict schedule, i.e. do my Leagal Writing on Wednesday, Contracts on Saturday, etc.   I wouldn't stop studying until the work due for that week was done.  There really is no magic amount of time for each class, but you don't want to get behind on your reading!  Organize your time that way so you don't go crazy trying to figure out what you should do next.  One girl in my class got two weeks behind on her reading and was struggling like crazy to keep up and didn't understand any of the lectures.  Also I tried to keep my reading about one-to-two weeks ahead because there were other projects to do not listed on the syllabi.   Keep that in mind!
Othere than that, everyone learns differently.  I bought flash cards which are a great secondary source and a nice break from regular study, but found I learned the rules best by writing them out over and over again.   If you can find a good study partner that will help also.  In the beginning you'll need to figure out which students are the most serious.  It helps because they might have info on their outlines you missed and vice versa. 
Anyway, hope that helps.   Good luck!

99
1L job search / Re: Part-time 1L/2L summers
« on: December 19, 2011, 07:32:25 PM »
I am currently part-time and my school provides most meetings for associations, etc. after 5pm and before our evening classes start.  I'm not sure if any other schools do, but ours does.  Most part-timers have jobs and are going at night to lessen the burden of the debt - at least that is what I'm doing.  I was told that moot court and law review are definitely doable for part-timers and the current editor of our law review is a part-timer, but externships are not.  They were fairly honest about this up front. 

I think it really depends upon the person.  Although I won't be able to do an externship, I have been invited to intern with the legal department at my current job when the time comes.  In addition, I work at a private club and already have a network of numerous attorneys - many more than most of the full-time day students.  All are aware I'm in law school, many I've known for years, and one who says there will be a job waiting for me when I graduate.  Of course nothing is a guarantee.

The upside is this - you have work experience and less debt.  It's not legal experience, but if you work in the business world, you have knowledge of business in addition to your legal knowledge when applying for a corporate legal job.  Same if you work for an insurance co., etc.  I will not be graduating with over 150K in loans desperate to take any job anywhere.  I can slowly start a solo practice if there are no opportunities.  But, as the old saying goes, "it's easier to find a job when you have a job."  It will only take me one year more to finish and I'll have about 1/3 of the debt.   Moot court, law review, externships, they are all important when finding your first job.  However, most of the attorneys I know have also said that once you move on to your second or third job, those things don't matter as much if at all.   

Another judge I spoke to went part-time at night while working full-time and was able to do moot court.  She didn't find a job right out of law school, but was hired with the public defender's office within a year.  She made contacts doing unpaid interships while working solo after law school.  She had do a bit more, but now she's a judge.  Perserverance is key in any profession.  Remember, you can't send out only 20 resumes within a two month span and whine that no one gave you an interview.  It's really not impossible, but it will be a little more work and a bit more sacrifice to get there.

100
Law School Applications / Re: Do Fee Waivers mean anything?
« on: December 19, 2011, 06:54:58 PM »
The fee waivers probably don't mean anything.  However, since it won't cost you anything to apply, why not?  A 157 is not T14, but the worst they can do is reject you. 

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