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Messages - Cher1300

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General Off-Topic Board / Obamacare upheld
« on: June 28, 2012, 10:11:38 AM »
Any thoughts?  I was quite surprised myself.

I'm just guessing here, but it could be that they want to focus on bar passage rates.  If you told them you don't want to be a lawyer, they might be concerned that you won't take the bar exam, which is one of the statistics people look at when choosing a law school.  Since they are new and don't have any bar pass rates to compare to other schools yet, that could be the reason.  Sounds stupid, but it's still a school that wants to attract future students and bar pass rates are a part of that.  Sometimes, it's probably better to lie.  Anyway, I'm just guessing.       

Pursuing an LLM / Re: Getting ABA after the bar.
« on: June 26, 2012, 10:37:13 AM »
Is an ABA-accredited school allowed to accept any transfer credits from an unaccredited school?

Yes.  Contrary to what some other posters have said, ABA schools CAN accept non-ABA credits.  They can even accept credits from non-law schools.  (For instance, Joint JD/MBA programs accept credits from business schools.)

Very, very, very few schools do, though.  To the best of my knowledge, there are only 2 or 3 and they're all in California.  Not to be demeaning, but generally speaking, look for the worst ABA accredited schools in California to begin your search. 

Outside of those very few schools, no other ABA accredited schools accept non-ABA law school credits, to the best of my knowledge.

From the research I have done, which has only been in Southern California, none of the ABA schools accept transfer credits from unaccredited schools.   The lower-tiered schools like Western State, La Verne, and Thomas Jefferson will accept transfer from state accredited schools, but not unacredited.  So if any school does, it's probably outside the LA area.   I'll keep searching, but if you know one or two off the bat let me know because I am curious about that.

Pursuing an LLM / Re: Getting ABA after the bar.
« on: June 25, 2012, 11:25:21 AM »
As far as I know, no ABA law school will take any courses from an unaccredited school.  I also attend an ABA in California, and even my school that is not highly ranked limits transfer credits even from a state accredited school - let alone unaccredited.  Unfortunately, you would have to start all over again.  Although I don't know why you would want to since you already passed the bar and have no intention of practicing law.   As Roald said, why would you want to spend the money?

Syracuse / Re: Warning regarding Syracuse Law
« on: June 25, 2012, 10:04:27 AM »
This grading policy is essentially  what every law school in America does.

completely false

Although I'm also not familiar with every ABA approved law school, that grading system seems pretty standard.  The only big difference between a law schools grading system, generally, is the mean.  The mean at our school is set pretty low at a 2.4 and students are required to maintain a 2.0 cumulative.   

From my experience, the curves are actually set to help a 1L.  For our first semester finals in contracts, the highest grade out of 120 points was a 79.  I believe the mean was 50-55.  If the exams aren't curved, the majority of students would fail because it is quite difficult to discuss or even spot every possible issue on an exam in the time frame given.  So you are competing against your classmates by trying to get as many points as possible.  And as mentioned above, all those students were A/B students in undergrad so the competition makes it much more difficult.   

As far as scholarships go, most 1Ls lose them after the first year because they have no clue as to how difficult it will be to get a 3.0 or 2.8 their first year.  As legend mentioned, one should ask questions.  Every one accepted to law school is used to getting As, and almost every student entering law school believes they will be in the top 10% percent of their class.  Since 90% of them are wrong every year, that shows just how difficult 1L can be even with a curve. 

Pursuing an LLM / Re: Getting ABA after the bar.
« on: June 25, 2012, 09:35:17 AM »
Why do you need the ABA accreditation if you don't want to practice law?  It's not quite clear what you want to do.  If you want an LLM, does that mean you want to teach law?  Is the school you went to state accredited?

Independent ok?

You are right - it is scary to leave your full-time job and people need to take that into consideration.  I have to admit that I'm a bit scared myself.  At the same time though, I can't imagine staying at my job with a law degree and some debt.   With the recession as it is, there are very little raises for most companies these days.  My company gave out small raises last year, but hadn't done so for four years prior and we had to endure pay cuts for almost two those four years.  Most of us were just grateful to have job so I can see why people would be afraid to leave.   

Thanks for the luck!  I'm sure I'll need some of that too.   ;)

Again we can never know the exact reasons or what each individuals situation is, but I believe the schools you mentioned have large part-time programs. Many part-time students go to further their already existing career, seeking an educational challenge, or for any number of reasons that may not be specifcially guided to obtain a typical attorney job. I personally never think that is a good idea, but part-time law school is on the rise and I am not even sure it existed 20 years ago. I would imagine many part-timers stay in their old careers that didn't require a law license.

So part-timing could be one factor in thse numbers and a reason for the disparity between higher ranked schools. I did a cursory look and noticed Yale, Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, and Boalt did not offer part-time programs.

Then at a school like Cooley the majority of studnets are part timers 1,289 part timers compared to 221 Full-Timers.

I imagine most part-timers already have a career that did not require a law license and did not feel secure enough to leave their old job to go law school. If they kept that job for four years odds are they will not leave it to start a new career from scratch. This may be a significant factor in the numbers you.

My theory could be 100% wrong, but I would like to see how the numbers played out for full-timers v. part timers at these schools. If any info like that exists feel to free post for my own curiousity.

As an aside I personally never think part-time law school is a good idea. You should go all in or avoid law school. Part-timing is going to be an extra year of your life and if you weren't secure enough to leave your old job odds are you won't be anymore secure four years later. You also will not have any desire  start a new career from scratch, and then you paid 100k to be in the same spot. Furthermore, odds are you will finish near the bottom of your class if you were working all through law school and get no legal experience because you will be in your old position.

Granted part-timing does work for some and I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster that didn't do part-time law school,  but I think part-timing is the culprit behind the poor employment numbers at many schools. The reason is for the facts I mentioned above again just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

I am currently part-time at night and my sole reason for working is to keep my debt as low as possible.  The same is true for many of the other part-timers at my school.  It really has nothing to do with being afraid to go all in and more to do with having 150K in debt.  I will cut my debt in half by working and saving and to be honest, one year more is really not much longer.  Most of the students have families and are older.  They are generally, (at least at my school), not young people just out of college. 

I think the main reason part-time law school wasn't done twenty years ago is because law school wasn't nearly as expensive as it is today.  Sure lawyers had debt, but I remember reading an article that talked about how the increase in ABA tuitions had more than doubled itself over a certain number years.  If I can find the article, then I'll post it.  Most of us plan on quitting our jobs after our second or third year to get experience as interns, etc.  Some of us already have jobs waiting for us when we graduate.   

A prosecutor came to speak at our school and discussed part-time versus full time.  It's not even something they consider on job applications.  They mainly look at grades, internships etc.   Although part-timers can't do internships traditionally, most of them can find internships through their legal departments at work, or if they quit their jobs their last year of school.  One of my professors suggested that to us.  He is a prosecutor in California, worked for the first three years, and did externships, etc. his last year before landing his job. 

Just wanted to clarify, because I think part-time is actually a smarter way to go than full-time.  Even if you work and can't afford to pay some of your tuition, you will still save on books and living expenses.   With less debt, a person has more options if they don't get a job in six months because they'll have less debt and some type of work experience - even if it's not necessarily legal experience.  While full-time has traditionally been the norm, I think part-time will become more and more popular as ABA schools become more expensive.  Fiscally, it seems to make more sense - at least to me.  :)

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT means nothing in the big picture
« on: June 16, 2012, 08:11:11 PM »
That is true - it doesn't matter in the big picture.  Most of the students that did well my first year weren't necessarily the smartest ones, they were the ones that worked their @$$ off.  While the LSAT may predict how well one will do in law school, it is a test that can be mastered through practice and prep courses.  It really has no bearing on a student that doesn't want to work while in school or in the real world.    Academia and the real world are so different in any profession.  Unfortunately, standardized testing is the only tool available to determine a student's aptitude for undergrad or graduate schools.   

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