Law School Discussion

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Messages - john4040

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411
General Board / Re: Accept it and conform.
« on: June 18, 2010, 12:57:31 PM »
For now, but will us producing more lawyers than anyplace else it won't matter who it "better" we will be everywhere. We will be like a self replicating virus in the flesh of the law, and the only choice is to conform to our new order or become a night janitor for the court.

Resistance is futile!  >:(

You wrongfully assume that the majority of Cooley grads are graduating and practicing law.  Your post would have been more accurate had you said that Cooley grads will saturate the market in BIGBURGERFLIPPING.  As managers of McDonalds, I don't see why Cooley grads shouldn't corner the market.

412
You've got to be shitting me. "wated money" applying? Its free to some and even the ones that charge are around $50. That may seem like a big deal in the short run, but if you are sweating that how do you plan to deal with tuition.

Look, its free to apply to cooley and with your LSAT you'd get a free ride(160 or above) If you are worried about application fees apply there online for free, if they take you its still free, and if they say no that is free too.
http://www.cooley.edu

Beisdes LOTS of lawyers have at least a misdomenor.

I think he's worried about wasting money both by applying to, and paying tuition to go through, law school.  If he cannot be admitted to the bar of his state, then going to law school is worthless.  It may be true that lots of lawyers have misdemeanors, however, (1) he will be an applicant to the bar, not a member, therefore his situation is distinguishable from those who become attorneys and subsequently get misdemeanors -- it's easier to deny someone admission than it is to take it away; and (2) fraud is not just any misdemeanor - it is grounds in many states to automatically reject your application.

413
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 16, 2010, 12:06:19 AM »

150k in debt.. not so much.. most people going to cooley get a scholarship. I'm going part time and Cooley law will only cost about half of that amount for me. I already work with a nonprofit, and plan to continue working in public service but in a legal role.

Although my post above was somewhat sarcastic, you've just confirmed my thoughts to a large extent.  High debt (although you attended with a scholarship - which not everyone does) and work at a nonprofit.

The cooley rankings.. c'mon everyone knows that is bs. People who go to cooley dont even give that merit (including myself).

Apparently bigs5068 thinks they have merit.

And career prospects. Its really not something you can predict. Yeah, people from schools outside the top tier will have to work a lot harder to network and find a job -this is a given. I will take a stab at it though- From my conversations with practicing lawyers, judges,and professors law school pretty much gets you your first job. After that, employment is based off experience and performance rather than where you went to school or academic credentials.

I do believe that you can generally predict the career prospects from a given school by looking into its past employment history.  Also, I think that there is some truth to the notion that employers care less about where you went to school and your academic credentials after years of legal experience.  Nevertheless, I see many jobs being posted for partnership positions which require top grades at a top law school.

I'm making this my last post arguing for cooley. I'm going there, and if you plan things and budget things appropriately you can make Cooley Law work for you. Its just as good as any other lower tiered school, and it provides a great bit of flexibility especially if you plan to work in the mid west.

That's cool man.  At least you got a scholarship.

414
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 15, 2010, 11:50:45 PM »
Obviously Harvard is a good school and the elite schools are properly ranked, but what is the difference between Gonzaga and Hofstra at the end of the day. Also you should probably not waste your time googling and disclosing people's personal info when you should be "allegedly" working as a Federal Clerk either.
*  *  *  *
If you really have nothing better to do than research and disclose personal info about me then I guess do what you got to do.

Don't worry, it took all of 5 minutes.  By posting the link in your sig, you effectively outted yourself.

No I do not make a million dollars a year and neither do 1L's at Harvard and I imagine you don't either if you are spending time googling me when you should be working. Some people from Cooley make money and some from UCLA don't.

You still don't get it, do you?  The average starting salary upon graduation from Cooley is $52,400.  Let's adjust that for the # of people who actually reported their salary, and you'll probably come up with a figure lower than $40,000.  Even assuming that your salary starts at $40,000 and it will increase over the years, it will still be nearly impossible to repay your $150K loans + accrued interest within 20-30 years.  Thus, although it may be true that "Cooley is not going to ruin your life intentionally", a ruined life is the inevitable consequence of graduating from Cooley without a scholarship.

415
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 15, 2010, 07:51:52 PM »
Nevertheless, schools such as Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Penn, Columbia, and NYU are thought of as "Ivies" by the general public.

I'm pretty sure that this is not true, because the general public probably has no clue that Chicago and NYU are good law schools.

Not here to quibble with whether or not the general public refers to these two particular schools as Ivies.  My point above still stands. 

Maybe if I edited my post everyone here could separate the forest from the trees, and address the substance of my argument if they disagree with it.

416
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:29:40 PM »
* Post edited above.*

417
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:06:46 PM »
Outing people is not cool.

-Moderator

418
Can anyone help me understand how law schools treat criminal records? 3 years ago I was arrested and charged with fraud, I was given 3 years probation.  I served my probation and was released in 18 months, I am now thinking of applying to law school and want to know if they will reject me based on this conviction.  I was younger and quite frankly immature, I have since been out of trouble, took the LSAT and scored 171.  I don't want to invest money applying to these schools to be rejected.  I am a stern believer in second chances, do law schools see things the same way? Help!!!!!! :-\

Fraud is a big one, primarily because it goes to the heart of the most protected characteristics of the legal profession:  Honesty, trustworthiness, and good judgment.  In many states, acts Involving Dishonesty, Fraud, Deceit or Misrepresentation are grounds alone for denial of admission.  (See, e.g., http://www.courts.state.nh.us/rules/scr/scr-42b.htm).

Without a doubt, you will have to disclose it and it will have a negative impact on your law school application.  Nevertheless, there should be at least one law school that is willing to overlook your prior missteps in exchange for your GPA and LSAT score.  While in law school, you should remain in contact with the Bar Association of the state you wish to practice and see what their thoughts are regarding your chances of admission to the bar.  What you do have going for you is the allegation that you have been "rehabilitated."  Before you are allowed to sit for the bar, you will have to set forth evidence that you have been rehabilitated.  Generally, the more serious the misconduct, the greater the showing of rehabilitation that will be required.

Sorry it's not what you wanted to hear, but I'm not here to sugarcoat the truth or bring you false hope.

419
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Is Cooley Law School That Bad?
« on: June 15, 2010, 02:32:18 PM »
To answer your question directly, it depends on what you want.

If you're not adverse to taking on $150,000 in debt for the prospect of no legal job, or a salary of $40,000 or less after graduation, go to Cooley .
If you're looking to impress laypersons, go to Cooley.
If you MUST be a lawyer and are willing to live in poverty for the remainder of your life, go to Cooley.

There you have it.  You'll be $150,000 in debt, living in poverty, but at least you can tell your friends that you're "a real lawyer" (assuming you pass the bar).  You will also be able to masturbate to the fact that you do "intellectually stimulating" will drafting, personal injury work, and felon in possession cases.  Last but not least, you will undoubtedly feel superior to your peers and bask in warmth of the Cooley Rankings.  After all,  it is YOUR LAW SCHOOL, Mr. Cooley Grad, THAT IS RANKED #12 IN THE WORLD (in a ranking system based almost exclusively on the size of the school's library).

420
Non-Traditional Students / Re: spouse and kids
« on: June 15, 2010, 11:43:51 AM »
Here is what your crazy simpeltonbutt cant seem to wrapitself around, if you dropout you have only debt to show for it, and as far as the higher unemployment in a JD to undergrad all you have to do to fix that if you cant find JD work is leave it off the resume(idiot) but an undergrad only person cant just crap out a JD. Duh. :P


How are you going to explain the giant 3 year resume gap when your prospective employer determines your age or looks at the timing of your college graduation?

Notwithstanding the above, do you know what a sunk cost is?  Allow me to define it for you:

Past expenditures (e.g., Tuition) for a given activity (e.g., Law School) that are typically irrelevant in whole or in part to future decisions. The “sunk cost fallacy” is an attempt to recoup spent dollars by spending still more dollars in the future.  Therefore, sunk costs should be ignored in determining whether a new investment (e.g., Additional year of law school) is worthwhile.


So then, I ask you:  Why would you proceed with law school and accumulate more debt, only to leave your JD off of your resume?  Wouldn't you be better off quitting law school midway, sparing yourself more debt, and just leaving the JD off your resume?  By going to law school, you're essentially throwing good money after bad.

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