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Messages - the white rabbit

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41
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Master of Jurisprudence
« on: September 04, 2010, 07:25:31 AM »
I don't think thats a fair analogy. I think the point is don't let others define success for you. some people r t14 or bust because they assume people have the sames goal as them. Yes I want to earn a nice salary but I don't need a designer degree to do so. Yes it'll be harder to land a job interview but not impossible. I think bigs point is to be realistic.

Just because you shouldn't let other people define success for you doesn't mean that there aren't certain outcomes that are not, objectively speaking, failures.  In the case of bungie jumping, if you've miscalculated and you hit the bottom of that gorge at full speed, that's failure.  If after school you are $200k in debt and unemployed, that's failure (and I'm not saying this is what happens automatically when you go to T3/T4, but it's something that happens to people sometimes).  My goal isn't to say, "you shouldn't got to law school unloess you're likely to get biglaw"; it's to point out that in general, the outcomes that result from law school are far less positive than conventional (lay) wisdom tells us that they are.

And I don't mean to be a downer here, or to repeat the T10 or bust theme.  For the record, I have friends who went to T3/4 and did pretty well for themselves, and I have friends who went to T10 schools who ended up doing poorly for themselves.  So it's not just school ranking that matters.  Still, best to go in with eyes wide open.

Good luck.  :)

42
If a woman lies and says she is on birth control and a man gets her pregnant (not a teenager), should he have known better and taken precautions anyway? Or is it all the woman's fault for tricking him? What do you think?

Are we talking about placing moral blame or shifting responsibility for costs, e.g. using this as a basis for denying child support?  If the latter, I would say that we should continue to place responsibility on the man because otherwise it would make every effort to get child support far more difficult than it needs to be.

I would say something about the man being the least cost avoider, but I can't think of how that would work at the moment.

43
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Master of Jurisprudence
« on: September 03, 2010, 05:00:56 AM »
So it's kind of like this:

Bigs and White Rabbit are walking across a bridge over a gorge when they see Smartandunique standing on the railing with a bungie cord tied to her waist.

Smartandunique: "Should I jump?"
Bigs: "You should if you want to!  It'll be awesome!"
White Rabbit: "That looks dangerous.  Are you sure you measured the cord properly?"
Bigs: "People of your ilk who have never gone bungie jumping are out of line giving advice!"
White Rabit: "Um, huh?"

44
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Master of Jurisprudence
« on: September 02, 2010, 03:45:16 AM »
Yes that is somewhat correct, but that is true of any form of education. The world is getting more and more competitive, law school is outrageously priced, but you can make it up. You need to realize that education is a LONG TERM investment odds are if you go to a tier 3/4 you may start out making only 50k, which when faced with a 100k loan accruing interest seems sh***y. However, if you are a halfway competent attorney in a few years you will be more experienced and be paid more generally.

Sometimes I feel like I just go around this board disagreeing with bigs, but somebody's got to do it.

Thinking of 50k a year as a worst case scenario is horribly wrong.  You may start out making nothing.

Plenty of people who are competent but just didn't get their foot in the door end up working contract attorney jobs (doc review) where regardless of number of years of experience, you get paid the same amount and have few opportunities for professional advancement.

Bigs paints an entirely too rosy picture of things.

Yes the debt is an issue, but believe it or not it is a GLOBAL recession and jobs are and will always be hard to come by in any field.

The problems with employment for graduates of lower-tiered law schools existed long before the current recession.  Even during the boom, it was an uphill battle.

It sounds like you have the right attidue, and if you want to practice law go to law school.

This is like saying, "if you want to fly go ahead and jump out that window."  OP, I'm not saying DON'T go to law school.  Just think through whether or not it's a smart decision.  Even if you're competent and hard-working and know what it is to struggle, that doesn't make handling a massive debt load on minimal income any easier to handle.  Bigs is correct to an extent that the problems with law school costs are shared with all types of education.  That's because it's a problem for all types of education, not because it's not a problem anywhere.  Law school is probably just the worst example.

In terms of your actual question about the Master of Jurisprudence, I've never heard of it being of practical use anywhere.  I would look into the JD only, and pursue it if after collecting all necessary information, it makes sense from every angle.

Good luck.  :)

45
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Ohio Northern vs. Roger Williams
« on: September 02, 2010, 03:39:30 AM »
not to keep an old thread alive, but I chose ONU law.  I did the summer starter program and did very well.

Glad to hear it's working out thus far.  Keep up the good work.  ;)

46
Law School Admissions / Re: Issues with December LSAT / Graduate GPA
« on: August 31, 2010, 09:25:47 PM »
Hello all.

I recently decided to take the December LSAT instead of the October LSAT. I'm gathering application information on several T14 schools, and now I'm starting to wonder if I'm shooting myself in the foot by taking the test so late. On one hand, I'll have much more time to prepare, which I believe is a good thing. On the other hand, several of the schools I'm looking at have rolling admissions and tell prospective students to apply as soon as possible. I guess it's something of a moot point now, because there's likely no way I'll be taking the October LSAT at this point, but I was just wondering if people felt they were hampered in the past by taking the December LSAT.

My second question is in regards to the role of graduate school GPA in law school admissions. I've heard several different opinions/experiences on this, and I figure that it might differ from school to school. I'm very interested in this because, while my undergrad GPA was respectable (3.63), my MA GPA ended up being over 20 points higher (3.88). Having some idea of how grad school GPA will be considered will hopefully give me a better idea of what to expect from the application process.

Thanks in advance for any information anyone can pass on!

I didn't take the December LSAT, but with regard to graduate GPA, I've never heard of it being taken into serious consideration anywhere.  LSAT and undergraduate GPA are what matter.

47
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Early Decision?
« on: August 30, 2010, 04:40:50 AM »
I don't entirely agree with Megan's assessment of recruiting: I do think that it's easier to get an offer from a big firm at Yale than it is from Harvard.  That's not because of their relative USNWR rankings though; rather it's based on the reputations of the schools in general and the firm's past experience at the schools.  That having been said, I think that there's probably only a small difference in options (firmwise) coming out of Columbia versus Harvard, at least in NYC.

In general, coming out of these schools, networking doesn't matter all that much because you'll be getting your job out of the on-campus interview program (OCI).  Still, the fact that you're IN NY does make things easier in terms of NYC jobs.

Finally, I would have said that 173/3.5 had a negligle shot at HYS and that it could go either way at CLS so the ED might be a good idea.  Then I remembered your GPA situation.  I can't say what the right answer is, but if it were me I would pepper, at least so I knew that I tried.

Good luck.  :)

48
Many prestigious firms require their associates to clerk. 

This is a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?  I mean, who can you think of besides Williams & Connolly?

49
What's the general consensus on this?  Already have an offer from the firm I did summer associateships at (120 some attys, $120K first year associate salary).  I understand that a clerkship (especially federal) is prestigious and great training ... but is there really much of a point if I already have an offer at a big (for my area) firm?  Just curious as to what your opinions were.

Do you want to be a litigator?  If so, I think you should go for it.  Otherwise, not so much.

50
No shitthats why I started it off with "who cares"

People who want to be successful probably want to know what it is that leads to success.  Just a hunch.

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