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Messages - the white rabbit

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Law School Admissions / Re: Issues with December LSAT / Graduate GPA
« on: August 31, 2010, 09:25:47 PM »
Hello all.

I recently decided to take the December LSAT instead of the October LSAT. I'm gathering application information on several T14 schools, and now I'm starting to wonder if I'm shooting myself in the foot by taking the test so late. On one hand, I'll have much more time to prepare, which I believe is a good thing. On the other hand, several of the schools I'm looking at have rolling admissions and tell prospective students to apply as soon as possible. I guess it's something of a moot point now, because there's likely no way I'll be taking the October LSAT at this point, but I was just wondering if people felt they were hampered in the past by taking the December LSAT.

My second question is in regards to the role of graduate school GPA in law school admissions. I've heard several different opinions/experiences on this, and I figure that it might differ from school to school. I'm very interested in this because, while my undergrad GPA was respectable (3.63), my MA GPA ended up being over 20 points higher (3.88). Having some idea of how grad school GPA will be considered will hopefully give me a better idea of what to expect from the application process.

Thanks in advance for any information anyone can pass on!

I didn't take the December LSAT, but with regard to graduate GPA, I've never heard of it being taken into serious consideration anywhere.  LSAT and undergraduate GPA are what matter.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: First Term at Cooley
« on: August 31, 2010, 03:44:24 AM »
I have seen it happen first hand. Student's from every law school have been in court opposing each other and when there is an actual case pending the name of your law school means jack. The judge does not say well I believe this girl is lying about being raped because defense counsel went to Harvard. If you get a case to trial the last thing on anyone's mind is what law school the other attorney went to.

This doesn't answer my question. 

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Early Decision?
« on: August 30, 2010, 04:40:50 AM »
I don't entirely agree with Megan's assessment of recruiting: I do think that it's easier to get an offer from a big firm at Yale than it is from Harvard.  That's not because of their relative USNWR rankings though; rather it's based on the reputations of the schools in general and the firm's past experience at the schools.  That having been said, I think that there's probably only a small difference in options (firmwise) coming out of Columbia versus Harvard, at least in NYC.

In general, coming out of these schools, networking doesn't matter all that much because you'll be getting your job out of the on-campus interview program (OCI).  Still, the fact that you're IN NY does make things easier in terms of NYC jobs.

Finally, I would have said that 173/3.5 had a negligle shot at HYS and that it could go either way at CLS so the ED might be a good idea.  Then I remembered your GPA situation.  I can't say what the right answer is, but if it were me I would pepper, at least so I knew that I tried.

Good luck.  :)

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: First Term at Cooley
« on: August 30, 2010, 04:27:36 AM »
Bigs, with no disrespect, I have an issue directed towards your analogy about Kobe and Luke Walton.
To say WE (3t/4t) are Walton and the 1T i Kobe is bothersome because many of us have beat those big named schools in court and while I understand you analogy there seems to be an image issue where the Harvard's of the world believe they are better than the Cooley students of the world.  They may come from a school with a better reputation but that doesn't mean they are better at what they do and I would hope all Cooley students had a chip on their shoulder about the image of the school.

First off, let me point out that winning in court, in and of itself, isn't simply a matter of who did the better lawyering.  It's not like a tennis match (see bigs?  I can use sports analogies too!), where winning and losing come down to who's better on a given day: the facts and the law involved in the case itself matter.  You can be the best tennis player in the world and still lose if one of the conditions of the match is that you play with a broken tennis racket.

Second, in what forum are Cooley grads and Harvard grads regularly seeing each other in court?

Many prestigious firms require their associates to clerk. 

This is a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?  I mean, who can you think of besides Williams & Connolly?

What's the general consensus on this?  Already have an offer from the firm I did summer associateships at (120 some attys, $120K first year associate salary).  I understand that a clerkship (especially federal) is prestigious and great training ... but is there really much of a point if I already have an offer at a big (for my area) firm?  Just curious as to what your opinions were.

Do you want to be a litigator?  If so, I think you should go for it.  Otherwise, not so much.

No shitthats why I started it off with "who cares"

People who want to be successful probably want to know what it is that leads to success.  Just a hunch.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: First Term at Cooley
« on: August 23, 2010, 09:29:20 PM »
Babylawyer, I respect your opinion but I'll tell you right now that I have two "Friends" (A term I use loosely with these two) who graduated from an Ivy League School who got plush jobs and then were fired within 4 months of their employment not because they couldn't handle the work but because of restructuring in the firm, I.E. People with 5 years experience are willing to work for what people out of law school are willing to work for.

It's not an opinion; it's a statement of fact.  Students at top law schools are still getting job offers from large firms. 

I recognize your point that even at the top schools, there are some students who are not faring well in this economy.  I have friends from top schools who ended up jobless because of the imploding economy.  If you had just said that there are people at every school who are struggling, I would have agreed.  But the fact that there are some people at every school who are struggling does not mean that nobody is getting jobs right now.  Some people are still getting jobs.

Really, it's my fault: I'm a stickler for exact language.  It's a character flaw, I think.

Also, unrelated to anything: I don't like the name baby lawyer.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, but it annoys me now.   :-\

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: First Term at Cooley
« on: August 22, 2010, 09:56:47 AM »
Don't believe that people who go to Cooley are not getting jobs because honestly, nobody is getting jobs right now but that will change in time.

I'm not trying to bash Cooley, but I'd like to point out that "nobody is getting jobs right now" is an exaggeration.  Students at top law schools are still getting jobs at large firms the way they were before the economy imploded.  Of course, that's not a Cooley-specific point.

In the end, who cares WHY it works out that way, as long as it does?

First off, let me point out that you didn't address my point on the anecdotal nature of the evidence.

With regard to the WHY, if there's an independent reason that's causing the correlation but you don't take that into account, then there's a good chance that things will no longer continue to work out that way.

Say, for example, that the people you know who are lawyers happen to be the people you know who are smart and motivated.  They would probably have made more money regardless of whether or not they became lawyers.  If, however, you say that the important thing is that they are lawyers and not that they are smart and motivated, and this leads people who are not smart or motivated to go to law school, then your observation that lawyers make more money will no longer hold true, at least not to the same degree.

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