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Messages - the white rabbit

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Accepted at Cooley....HELP
« on: January 22, 2011, 05:37:21 AM »
the white rabbit, that's what I mean.  Law firms both know and have some say in where law schools rank in general (I don't mean the exact number, but they know how the schools that feed into their market compare. 

Right, but they probably don't LOOK at rankings lists to figure this out. 

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Accepted at Cooley....HELP
« on: January 21, 2011, 02:27:54 AM »
Law firms and judges care once again how the school is ranked in a particular region.

I think lawyers and judges probably already have an idea of how schools stand in their particular region, and that they are not looking to USNWR for guidance on this.

I tend to  look at the positives not the negatives in terms of the legal marketplace.  Look at it from this standpoint:  Society will probably become more and more litigious as the years go by.  History has proven this to be true.   Next,  as the middle class people no longer enjoy jobs such as 25 dollar an hour janitors or non skilled laborers making 50k a year-  these middle class and also lower income people will certainly want to become claimants against someone to pay the bills (goverment, former employer, insurance company).  Lawyers will certainly have to be involved in either of these situations.

Even if this highly speculative scenario actually does unfold, all it means is that there will be a group of people who don't have money to pay legal fees trying to get legal services.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Accepted at Cooley....HELP
« on: January 20, 2011, 03:59:51 AM »
However, if you know what you are getting into and bust your ass it is POSSIBLE to have a successful career as a lawyer from Cooley.

Everything's POSSIBLE.  That doesn't mean that everything's worth $100k in non-dischargeable student loans to attempt.  Also, I think that $100k is on the low end in terms of the associated debt?

Studying for the LSAT / Re: so discouraged and need some advice
« on: January 20, 2011, 03:49:58 AM »
I don't understand how you can rationally think anyone can be in the top 20% when only 20% of people can be in the top 20%.

1. The Lakers are about to play the Celtics.
2. Either team could win.
3. Only one team actually will win.

This is the greatest time to open new firms, lots of people need attorneys and many are going to use local, low cost attorneys over big firms. I know SEVERAL people who have rented small buildings and started their own firms and all are doing very well for themselves. These people all went to tier 3 schools and made 75-80k net their first year out working for themselves. Now two of these same people are so busy from word of mouth and small amounts of advertising that they have actually hired another attorneys to work for them. Also, when you run your own business you are able to form a llc and pay yourself a very small salary which will allow you to pay the minimum amount on student loans. Eventually the debt will be forgiven and all will be good.

Almost all wrong.  A few points:

- Big firms have never competed for things like divorce actions, probate, criminal defense, etc. (except when the parties involved were particularly rich), so people needing local, low-cost lawyers is nothing new
- A new business involves start-up costs (rent, malpractice insurance), which most recent grads can't pay out of pocket and will have a hard time borrowing with student loans already hanging over their heads
- Even if you manage to start up a new law firm, you'll still have to compete with existing small firms that have actual experience in legal practice
- You can pay the minimum on your loans regardless of how much you make, so no benefit there
- Any assumptions about impending loan forgiveness are speculative at best

Which is not to say starting one's own firm can't be done, just that it's not as easy as you make it sound, and that there's no reason why now is a better time than any other.

Law School Admissions / Re: Late start on app, splitter (176/3.32), help!
« on: January 15, 2011, 07:38:28 AM »
Boston U
Ohio State

Aim higher.  With your numbers, these are all safeties or low targets.  Nothing on this list even resembles a reach (which for you would be a top five school).

Also, wait until next cycle and apply as soon as applications are being accepted.

Law School Admissions / Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« on: January 02, 2011, 11:23:44 AM »
It's true law school is a bottomed-out, dying profession. This is a fact REGARDLESS of where one goes to school. All this talk of "second tier beats third tier" like playing rock, paper scissors is STUPID. If you want to rake up a $100K in debt to PRAY to make $45K a year, then law school is your friend. I went to law school (fourth tier) and have finally, through penny-pinching, paid my $100K debt down to about $50K. And that's while making a $53K a year salary. It burns me to know I still owe as much as I do. I am 33. There is another lawyer in my office who makes the same amount as I do, went to a "first tier" school vs my "fourth tier" school. She even commented "look where it got me." Exactly. She went to a way "better" law school, plus she has a master's from Harvard, and all it got her was twice the debt at the same age as me. She still owes about $100K. I would rather owe my debt than hers and keep my crappy fourth tier degree. Being that much closer to getting out of this financial moneypit disaster is way more valuable than having a "better" degree.

Not to nitpick, but your criticisms here are not about the legal profession or law school, but about the massive amount of debt that usually accompanies a law degree.  (I am not suggesting, by the way, that I disagree that that's a pretty big problem.)

Sorry it's been so tough for you to dig your way out of the hole.  Hope your prospects are brightening.  :)

Law School Admissions / Re: i'm a hot mess! please help!
« on: December 29, 2010, 06:37:28 AM »
I've heard through the grapevine that law schools are more prone to accept music majors, but is that true?

I've never heard this before, and I doubt it's true.  Law schools generally only care about (1) your URM status, (2) your LSAT score, (3) your GPA, (4) your work experience, and (5) your major.  (The foregoing is listed from most important to least important) 

I would add that there is a monumental gap between the importance of the first three and the last two.  The first three probably account for close to 95% of the determination.

Transferring / Re: What is considered T1?
« on: December 27, 2010, 05:42:47 AM »
So if rankings are based in large part based on the votes of judges, and cooley is spitting out record numbers of lawyers each year flooding the market with them as an increasing percentage of the licensed attorneys and increasing so the standing judges as well, won't the system eventually end up with cooley as #1 simply do to the fact that very soon the vast majority will be cooley grads? The people who cry about wanting to make $160,000 day one tend to be allergic to civil service, cooley grads tend not to have really any other choice according to posters here, so since cooley was created about the same times as the rankings it seems to be all a cooley based conspiracy for global dominance due to a brainwashed society that will buy and/pr kill eachother for whatever $200 shoe a rapping b-ball player wears.

There's not necessarily a direct relationship between # of alumni and # of alumni judges.  Also, I think your assumption about the $160k crowd is wrong.  Plenty of civil service folks started off at the big firms.

Law School Admissions / Re: 2010-2011 Application Cycle
« on: December 23, 2010, 05:18:54 AM »
For the record, proper grammar and spelling actually do matter.  If your writing is sloppy, people who are evaluating what you've written will assume, fairly or not, that your research and reasoning are sloppy as well.

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