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Messages - Stuje1

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31
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Most competetive markets?
« on: February 26, 2008, 12:59:25 AM »

Depends on what you mean by "competative" market.

If you mean "competative" as in a relatively limited number of BigLaw associate positions available, then the answer would be markets like Boston, Denver, and Miami.

If you mean "competative" as in the best candidates are competing for the BigLaw jobs, then the answer would be New York, DC, and San Fran.

Bruinbro is right on the $, totally depends on how you define "competitive"

NY certainly has the largest # of the "best and brightest" talent flocking to the city (probably followed by DC), but it is far from the most "competitive" market in terms of landing a BIGLAW job.  It is such a large market, that it is much easier to find a BIGLAW job there then in a lot of other cities, like in Boston. 

To go on, and add to, Bruinbro's lists.
Highest Talent level, so competing against top students: NYC, DC, LA, Boston, San Fran, Chicago
Hardest major city to get a BigLaw job, due to high demand city and smaller # of legal jobs: Boston, Seattle, Denver, Miami?, San Fran?

Don't get me wrong, getting a top BIGLAW job at any of the "Highest Talent Level" cities (e.g. NY, DC, Chi) is extremely difficult/competitive, but finding a solid job there is not as difficult as the other list of cities I mentioned.

32
here's a silly question...but does bc actually make grad students pay to use the gym? ICK! and if so, what are our other options? the gym is sort of a huge part of my life...

Actually discussed already in this thread (check out pg 9...assuming you have the same pg set up).   Understandably, you prob did not read every single post on this extremely long thread...it can be a lot to sort through.  The sum of it is this: Free very small/crappy gym on the law school campus or can pay a relatively small fee for the big/real gym on the main campus.

33
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC vs. Northeastern
« on: February 22, 2008, 02:06:25 PM »
I think BC is the clear choice (obviously, a bit biased).   It might be one thing if Northeastern gave you a full (or nearly full) ride, but from reading the posts on here, it seems like that is not going to happen.

While you seem set on crim law now, you never know how your interests might change once you get into law school.  I can't tell you how many of my friends came in dead set on being a DA or doing Corporate law or environmental law and ended up completely changing their mind.  You aren't exposed to a ton of different areas of law prior to law school.  Who knows, maybe you'll take an IP class and find out that is your true passion.  Therefore, you should really go to the best school you can with the best overall job prospects, it is really dangerous to pick a school because they are particularly good at X (not that I actually know if Northeastern is any better on crim law anyway.  In fact, our Crim Pro professor wrote the Examples & Explanations for Criminal Procedure...a really good/well-known national study guide).  Also, while you might not be "terribly interested" in biglaw now, when they start offering you nearly $200K straight out of law school, you may change your mind....so good to keep that option open.

34
nukelaw, thanks so much for your responses to my questions. Stuje1 and you have pretty much sold me on BC. Not only did I like what I read in your answers, but just the fact that you answered our multiple questions so thoroughly means that you guys are the kinds of people I'd like to have as fellow law students. I want to be a part of the BC Law crowd, it just seems like a great place to be. As lurker said, you guys are doing a great job selling the school.

I sincerely appreciate all the time that has been put into the responses....it is obvious you guys like your school, and it is all extremely helpful in this stressful decision making time.


Anytime, glad we could help!   I know I really do love it here.  I was talking with students last year who decided to come to BC, and they all are so happy with their decision to come.  One girls facebook photo album was recently entitled "BC Law: best decision I've ever made"   not even kidding.


1) Why do you say the DC market is a tough one to crack (I ask because it's a place I'd like to work after graduation). In a related matter, is it accurate to say that in order to land a good job in a place outside boston, you need to finish higher than if you wanted to stay in Boston? Meaning, is it only the top students who get offers in D.C., etc.?

Just to add to Nuke, I think another issue with DC is that (like Boston) they are pretty concerned with personal ties to the area.   I had absolutely none (just wanted to work in DC) and I think that went against me with a few places.  They want to make sure you are actually going to accept their offer and stay there for some time.

on your 2nd Q, I think it is accurate to say you need to do a little bit better to get a job in a place outside of Boston then you do inside of Boston.   I think that statement is probably true for every law school though.  It is less of a knack on our ability to place outside the city then it is saying something about our strength inside of Boston.  It is not so much "you need to do real well" to leave Boston as it is "you can do worse" and still get a job Boston.   An employer in Boston is much more likely to accept a middle of the road BC student then is an employer in Texas.   But this just makes sense for every law school (E.g. At emory, a middle of the road student is more likely to find a job in Atlanta than LA).   The schools have better connections and a better name in their home town than in a different city.  While a Boston firm may take a chance on a middle of the road BC/BU kid because they have a lot of confidence in the school or they are an alumn, it is just less likely that a firm in Texas is going to do the same when they have a top 10% student from a local tier 3 school who wants the same job.

If your question was more geared to whether one has to do better to get a job from a top firm in a different city then they would to get a job at a top firm in Boston, I think this is also true but also true of every law school (with maybe the exceptions of the very, very top schools, such as Harvard, who have a top success rate in every city).  Again, because of strong connections to the local schools, it is just easier to get a job in the top firms in the city.  No doubt, U Minn students have a much easier time getting a job at the top firms in Minn then the top firms in Boston, and USC students have an easier time (or can do worse) and still get a top job at an LA firm than they would if they tried to get a job in DC.   I think Ropes (the top firm in Boston) took something like 8-11 BC students this year.  There just isnt a top firm in another city who would take such a large # of BC students, so it just makes sense that it is thus a bit "easier" to get a job in the Boston market then outside.   Hope that all makes sense!  ;D


how much would a typical 1br run for?

1K? 1.2k?


I would say 1 beds range from about $800-$1400.   2 beds are almost the same price though (about $1000-1600) so it makes a lot of sense to find a roommate



Okay, I'm going to reverse the question.  Everyone on LSD is always talking what happens to kids at or below the median at a school, but just for curiousity's sake, I want to know what options are available to you if you're at the top of the BC class (and don't just say something like "if you can dream it you can do it").  Do a lot of kids at the top after 1L end up transferring?  What kinds of stuff have the top kids that you've seen graduate done?

I want to know how much incentive there is for me to be a gunner. ;)

Ha, I like your attitude!   If you do well, there is always a great clerkship opportunity (I think we have something like 6 clerking at the circuit level next year).  There are great Fed gov positions (like the DOJ honors program).  And of course there is BIGLAW.   With the exception of 2-3 firms, doing well at BC will pretty much open the door to any firm in the country (the exceptions are Wachtell, Davis Polk and Williams Connolly...these three tend to hire almost exclusively from the T-14 (or higher), though I do know they have at least interviewed BC students before).  Doing well at a great school like BC will certainly give you a ton of options! (doesn't mean you have to be a gunner though to do well  ;) )

As for transferring, people certainly do it, but it is usually much more based on significant others then things like "prestige."   I know we had a fair # transfer last year, and I only know 2 who did it because they wanted a better named school (everyone else was for location, family, significant other, etc.).  We had 2 or 3 kids go to harvard (one turned down Yale), one to Chicago, one to Northwestern, I think a couple to NYU/Columbia and one to Penn (that I can name off the top of my head).  There are a LOT more who could transfer, but choose not to.  It doesn't make much sense to do it for any reason besides personal reasons.  If you are at the top of your class at BC, as I mentioned above, most opportunities are open to you...very little is out of your grasp.   If you are dead set at working 3000 hrs at Wachtell, then maybe transferring is the best option.   But in all seriousness,the only other reason it makes sense from a prestige perspective is if you want to be a judge or professor, in which case, having the names Harvard or Yale on your resume certainly helps.   But again, almost every door will be open to you if you are in the top of the class at BC.

Keep those Qs coming!

35
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BLS with $$$ or BC
« on: February 19, 2008, 11:35:07 PM »
Absolutely do NOT go to a school for the purposes of transferring.  Go to a school and plan on staying there.   Law school is a crap shoot and you never know how you are going to do.  Law shcool is not as simple as putting in hardwork.  Everyone in law school is very, very smart and used to working hard.   You never know how you are going to do.  Plus, LSAT is not necessarily a great predictor of success (despite the LSAC's claims).  Most of the people I know who did really well at BC had in the bottom 25% LSAT score for BC and there are those who had top LSAT scores who did very poorly.  Plus, as someone noted, you don't need to just do well, but you need to do REALLY well at brooklyn to transfer to a school like NYU or Columbia.

I think you should come to BC, but I am a bit biased  ;D  I have a good friend who had the exact same decision as you and almost went to Brooklyn.   He just told me yesterday how glad he was that he decided to come to BC over Brooklyn (with large scholarship).   If you Message me, I can put you in contact with him and he can give you more insight on his decision and thoughts.   Good luck with your choice!

36

I'm not at BC (yet) but I looked at the admissions packet pretty carefully.  Apparently there is a sort of standard gym w/ weight and cardio machines right on the LS campus, and there's also a big rec center on the UG campus, but that costs money to join.  The law school gym is free as far as I could tell.

Right on the $.  There is a small gym on the law school campus.  It is not very good, but it is something (and free).  There is also a gym on the UG that you indeed have to pay for, but i am pretty sure it is relatively cheap (cheaper then a gym you would have to pay for in the city)

I will be a seemingly ancient 28 in August 2008. At BC, would I have many peers within striking distance of my age? I know the average age is 24 but it's hard to tell anything from that.

28 is by no means old at BC.  Granted a good amount are straight from, or a few years out of UG.  but, With the exception of the few people who are in the 40-60 age range with a family, there is no clear age division at school.   No one really pays much attention, and everyone hangs out together (for example, two close friends of mine that hang out: one is 23 and one is 31). 

Stuje,

I'm sure this is somewhere on the website but I can't seem to find it: What exactly is the normal cutoff for OCI (not including the lottery you were talking about before)?? Thanks.

Hard to say there is a"normal" cut off.  Every firm is different.  Only the very top firms  put an official cut off, but some have an "unofficial/non-written" cut off.   For the very top firms, you may see cut offs of top 20% to top 33%.   People can still apply even if they say there is a cut off, but the firm might ignore it.  The grade cut offs are the same at similarly ranked schools.  In fact, we do all of our off campus job fairs with BU and some other really good schools (Texas, Northwestern, Duke), so this info might not be too helpful in comparing job prospects at similar schools (BU and BC are VERY comparable on job prospects...I would not say that is a factor that distinguishes the two schools)


37
Nuke is probably off somewhere glorious for our spring vacation, so I'll take a stab at answering some of these.

Hi nukelaw, thanks for answering questions. I'm in at BC. I wanted to ask about the social scene (lame question I know, but the schools I'm deciding on are pretty much equal academically). Would you say BC has closer knit students that hang out together more often than a typical urban law school? Or is it hard to say given that you obviously haven't been a student at other law schools :). And do a lot of BC Law students live near Harvard Ave. and hang out in the bars there?

I think the social atmosphere at BC is one of our greatest strengths.  After speaking with many friends at different law schools, I definitely think we have a closer group of students than most schools.  There are frequently school related events (e.g. "Bar reviews," where there is an official bar we all go out too) but we also alway go out together on our own.  I hang out with my law school friends at every opportunity, which means every weekend and often going out on weekdays too (I am a 2L now, I get to live a little).  On a cool side note, last year, one of our classmates rented out an entire bar for us and we had an open bar all night on the night we finished our 1l Finals.

Why does BC have such a close knit student body...I think it is for two reasons.  1) Unlike schools located in a more urban setting, BC Laws actual buildings are in a more suburban area. Therefore, people have to travel to get to school (car, T, etc).   So, in between classes, people do not leave school. They stick around, eat lunch together, study together, etc.  At schools in a more urban location, it is more likely for them to leave the physical premises between classes since they are more likely walking distance to their homes.  Spending all that extra time together leads to more bonding and a closer group of friends  2) BC is known as a place with very friendly students (We are nicknamed the "disneyland of law schools" in Princeton review).  So, this leads to self-selection.   The people who want to go to a place that is very friendly and social come to BC, those who care less about that and maybe care more about some other factor (e.g. an urban location) go to a different school.   I am happy with my choice! 

As for living on Harvard ave, some students live in that area, but I wouldn't say the majority.  More live in the Cleveland circle, Washington square area, since it is a bit closer.  However, we go out to those bars ALL the time.  It is only like a 5-10 min T ride for most people, so that area is a favorite of most.

A more law-related question, how do the job prospects look at BC these days? Are most graduates staying in Boston, with a few going to NYC and DC? Any idea what % are getting BigLaw?  Thanks so much.

Here are some stats from the class of 2006.  http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/services/career/statistics.html
I have no idea how representative it is of a typical BC law class.  It looks like a good % go to big law (which certainly seems true every yr).  I would guess that the #s are a little lower than normal on the NY/DC %s (assuming those are both counted in the midatlantic region).  20% is a good amount, but based on my class, I would guess the #s to be more in the 25-33%.  NY and to some extent, DC, are very big destinations for BC grads.  A ton of people go to the NY job fair, and most were quite succesful.

For the BC student:

For those students who are not into biglaw, what kinds of places do they go? I have been accepted to BC and would eventually like to work for the Federal gov. I hear a lot about Boston firm connections, but not much else. Thoughts?


According to those same stats, about 14% went to PI and govt work from the class of 06.  That is a pretty good amount.  I know we have PI/Gov job fairs, and we definitely have connections throughout the government in Massachusetts (my bro-in-law works in the Mass AGs and they call it the "BC Mafia" because we dominate it)  Unfortunately, I am one of those typical lawfirm guys, so I can't be of too much more help.   Maybe someone else can help more on this one.

... and also the job prospects for those in the bottom half of the class... are they still able to get midlaw jobs in Boston thanks to its reputation in the area?

Students in the middle of the class can get midlaw, even big law jobs.  It can be more difficult and result in some legwork, networking, etc, but it definitely can happen.   It is harder for those in the bottom of the class (well below the median) but you are going to find that at any school outside of the T14.  If you do not do well, it is just hard to market yourself, especially in this ailing economy.   BC does make efforts to try and help students not in the top of their class, such as including 20% (or maybe 25%) lottery spots during OCI (so those spots are filled by students who did not make the grade cut, but still get to interview with the firms).   I know  a good amount of people who did not have the grade reqs, but got interviews through lottery and then impressed them enough to get job offers.  All in all, the job prospects for our students seems to be very healthy (see Princeton reviews top 5 ranking).

Any more q's?  Fire away!

38
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Pooping in Pants
« on: December 22, 2007, 06:19:15 PM »
It would be reach (as would Wisc, IU, OSU, CU) but I think it is good to have a few reach schools because you never know....but heck, I applied to 23 freakin law schools, so maybe I am not the one to ask about wasting app fees  ;)

39
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Pooping in Pants
« on: December 22, 2007, 11:34:53 AM »

As for the other questions:
   -I'm from a small/medium sized liberal arts private in IL (ranked high in midwest)

I would say your best bet then would be midwestern schools since they are more likely to have an appreciation for your UG.   That is not to say you should limit yourself to midwest, but maybe a little higher emphasis on them.  Some suggestions?

Wisconsin
Indiana - Bloomington
Ohio State
Case Western
U of Cinc.
Chicago Kent

And some non-midwest schools
CU Boulder
American
Tulane
Uconn
Pitt
Florida State, U of Florida

40
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Pooping in Pants
« on: December 22, 2007, 12:53:50 AM »
I would look at the schools in the 30-60 range.   The higher end will be a reach, but not completely out of the question.   You should be able to get into a few schools in that range, with your GPA...but then again, you haven't told us where it is from or what your major was, and that can play a factor.

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