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Messages - jonlevy

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91
As a dean of a CBE law school (Monterey College of Law), I can confirm that what makes California accredited law school programs different is that we are scaled in size and cost to more closely meet the needs of the local community. Our law degree costs about $65K . . . not $150K. As a part-time evening program, our students are encouraged to start working in law-related jobs during law school, not only reducing the need for student loans, but in most cases providing the opportunity to get actual experience in different practice areas (and law firms) to identify a preferred area of practice after graduation. In some ways, our format is much closer to the medical school practicum model than the typical ABA program. I think that you will also find that the bar pass rates for good students at CBE schools is competitive with the unranked ABA law schools.

How do you feel about one of the options of the English system - Bachelors in Law coupled with a 2 year training contract?

Is US law so much more complex than England that it requires 7 years of school?  As someone dually licensed in England and the USA, I would say English law is far more complex as it take into consideration about 500 more years of precedent and the EU legal system as well.

92
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 03, 2013, 12:32:10 PM »
I agree with you that the mere activity of learning the law is well-suited to online study, Jon. But becoming a successful attorney involves more than just rote memorization of esoteric rules and learning to perform legal analysis. What do online programs substitute for the face-to-face relationships you form in brick and mortar law schools? I don't believe that the importance of forging relationships and making friends with your classmates can be overstated. (It would take some effort.) Seeing the same people in classes month after month and year after year cements those relationships. I usually prepare for my exams by sitting alone in my den with the door shut, laboring over practice exams and outlines. But the rest of the time, it seems like a mistake to brush off the all-important element of networking if your goal is to succeed in the legal field.

But why would Law be different from credentialed Psychology, Public Administration or Legal Studies (MASL) online programs? To tell you the truth there is a higher percentage of a-hol;es in the legal field - in all those lawyer jokes there must be a kernel of truth? The whole thing has to do with the ABA, schools that make money from the students and overpaid law professors - online study cuts the costs down fro the student.

93
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 03, 2013, 08:59:05 AM »
One can do all the networking necessary after passing the bar and hanging out at the county court house and attending specialization seminars, after all an online grad is likely going to be working as a solo practitioner or they are operating under some delusion they are a desirable job candidate. 

94
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: taft law school
« on: April 02, 2013, 10:24:35 PM »
Not sure why you would recommend Novus, they are bogus and not registered with California.  Very doubtful a Novus degree would qualify anyone for a bar exam anywhere.

The Novus site is full of official looking garbage but no mention of EVEN ONE sucker graduate who ever passed a bar anywhere.

Taft on the other hand is a real law school with real praticing attorneys who graduated:

http://www.taftu.edu/tls/honoredgrads.htm

95
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 01, 2013, 08:47:03 PM »
Example: a minimum security inmate with regular online access might be a good candidate, if the school would admit him. (And why not? He's got nothing but time and it's not like they're serious about producing attorneys.) Another might be a retired senior with loads of free time and curiosity, whose doctor has instructed him to start exercising his mind before he loses it. But that's a gamble, seniors who read this. The cure may become the cause.

The majority of online students for various reasons cannot attend a regular law school, by default many of them will be unqualified to pass the bar becuase they lacks skills, time, money, or stability.  The odds of getting all the way through and passing are somewhere around 20-1 against given a high attrition rate for various reasons usually failure of the FYLSE or lack of time.  However, law is well suited to online study, it's just that about 95% of the students going the online route are unsuitable.  If the ABA would accredit online study, we would see the attrition go to something like even (50-50) odds of passing the bar.  There is nothing unique about study of law that makes it unsuitable for online study, English and South African law schools have been offering law degrees for years which qualify the graduates for a training contract.

96
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: March 27, 2013, 10:45:53 PM »
June 2012 FYLSE has 31 NWCU First timers taking it and 69 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/Junefylsxstats2012_R.pdf

October 2011 - 31 First Timers from NWCU and 74 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/fyx/FylsxStatsOct2011.pdf

June 2011 41 FT and 78 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=I4HxJJNgGJE%3d&tabid=2269&mid=3159

Given that many of these students were stalled and only a third passed - the ongoing enrollment at NWCU is likely less than 200.

The ones that can't get by the FYLSE exam don't count.  The First Timer total would seem to reflect an annual enrollment of of under 100 new students a year even counting the wash outs that don't make it to the FYLSE.

No way the NWCU is collecting tuition at an annual rate of 600 students.

Bottom line, may will try but few succeed because most are unqualified to pass a simple exam.

97
Tell that to Justice Scalia, Bryan Garner, Corbin, Farnsworth, the ALI, Prosser.  Most law review articles are written by professors.  And, by the way, Bailey was disbarred.  The only way to become effective at practicing law is to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the law.

Stan Chesley was just disbarred too - doesn't mean they were not excellent attorneys in their heyday.

Most attorneys do NOT have an encyclopedic knowledge of law.

98
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: March 26, 2013, 10:21:23 PM »
Where did you get the statistic 600 student at NWCU Law?

That seems extremely high.  Are you sure you read those stats right?


99
Maybe it is an exploit and vacuums up all your data?  I always get my legal software from discussion boards as it is more legal that way.

100
But, if he/she does not really want to do that, then he/she is stuck with creating his/her own brand.    The online law school degree (from any online law school) is only a beginning. The school's name will not help him/her get his/her foot in the door. Getting published is one excellent way of creating your own brand.

Law is largely not an academic pursuit; you get recognized by practising law, not writing about it.  Win a few cases and get the respect of your peers; that's the way to get ahead. Law Review articles by students are mainly rehashes of secondary sources. read the classics instead: Gerry Spence, Melvin Belli, F. Lee Bailey, Louis Nizer, etc.

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