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Messages - jonlevy

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However, several states HAVE set the appropriate standard that matters YOUR ABILITY TO APPLY THE LAW

There are a lot of lame attorney out there, 99% from ABA schools. Neither quality of schools nor passing the bar really guarantees much. Law naturally attracts a lot of sociopaths. It is sort of like the Catholic priesthood.  The best way to weed these baddies out would be to make all lawyers take a two year apprenticeship after law school in which they had to do public service work. Passing the bar is only an indicator that someone can pass an exam.

This has been a problem however for Centuries:


When grappled in the law's embrace,
Who first betrayed an anxious face
And fain would shield me from disgrace
My Lawyer.

Who told me I should not confess,
That he would all wrong's redress
And set me free from all distress?
My Lawyer.

When, sick in jail, I senseless lay,
Who took my watch and case away
Lest prowling thieves on me should prey
My Lawyer.

Who to my wealth tenacious clung,
And for me wagged his oily tongue,
And at my foes hot embers flung
My Lawyer.

Who told me he was dreadful smart
And knew the law-books all by heart.
And always took his client's part?
My Lawyer.

Who, in the court, with peerless pride,
My rights affirmed, my guilt denied.
And swore the State's attorney lied?
My Lawyer.

And when twelve men, in one compound,
For me a guilty verdict found,
Who came to stanch the bleeding wound
My Lawyer.

Who said my time within the wall
Would be exceeding- brief and small,
The minimum, or none at all?
My Lawyer.

And when the judge my doom proclaimed,
And three long years of exile named,
Who looked indignant and ashamed?
My Lawyer,

When, at the sheriff's stern command,
I for the train was told to stand,
Who longest shook and squeezed my hand ?
My Lawyer.

Who, when he had me safe confined,
No more concerned his crafty mind,
Nor was, for me, to grief inclined?
My Lawyer.

Who closed the mortgage on my lot,
And drove my family from my cot,
And left them homeless on the spot ?
My Lawyer.

Who, when of prison clothes I 'm stripped,
And from these walls am homeward shipped,
Will get himself immensely whipped ?
My Lawyer.

[Written by Mr. George Gilbert, who died on the 9th of June
A. D. 1890.]

If you can't defend your position against your classmates, in a classroom, what hope do you have in a courtroom.

A real good one because you are not cut from the mold as ABA clone.

I was being appointed to felony cases as a PD within 6 months of passing the bar with my Taft JD.  On my first criminal case, I skunked the DA with a motion to dismiss for lack of venue and won at the preliminary hearing.  For my first five years of practice I was present at the county law and motion calender every week handling criminal cases, family law, civil litigation and juvenile cases. I didn't need any classmates in classroom, I learned from my colleagues who actually knew a thing or two about the law. My clients were all pleased because I took the time to listen to them, no matter their social or economic status. I took the cases no one else would touch. Last week I won the first round of a case at the African Commission in Banjul, The Gambia.  I may not be rich but my cases are reported by the AP, Reuters, Bloomberg, etc.

So it can be done, don't listen to naysayers like Zepp. Zepp is the face of the type of law you are unlikely to practice as a DL graduate. If you beat the odds and pass the California Bar, give something back to society, don't squander your talents trying to be like the ABA law school grad.

Two types of LLMs in the US - one for foreigners trying to meet ABA requirements for comparative common law, the other variety are quickie 9-12 month programs purporting to specialize in tax law, IP, etc.  Some of the DL variety may not be worth much except CLE credits.

Getting a UK LLB and then a US LLM might work in a few states, others would require an active solicitor's license. Many do not allow this at all. In any event, anyone who could survive all that could surely be admitted to a ABA approved school and save all sorts of time, effort and expense.

I think any 9-12 month degree could be questionnable. LLMs differ from country to country, some are two year programs like a  true Masters degree. if they plan on practising in the EU, I'd steer clear of a US online degree and look at University of London instead:

They may want to post this question in the LLM forum.

Zepp, you are trying to compare apples and peanuts here.  Obviously, students who attend a DL law school are aware they can only take the California Bar. DL schools regardless of curriculum are going to attact statistical outliars and a lot of failures who have no business being in law school. A DL school at present is basically a glorified reading list, it has nothing to do with what goes on a law school.  However reading for law is a traditional and proven method of passing the bar. Since students already have a undergrad degree, so if they choose to read for the bar exam, what is the problem?

The English who have been practising law a lot longer than we have, have no problem with an  external LLB.

The answer here is for the ABA mossbacks to accept online education and let the well endowed ABA schools offer external JDs. This is the 21st Century, we have the technology available to replace the "sage on the stage with the guide on the side." But it takes money and aside from Washington Posts's Concord, no one has the money to make that sort of investment in a school that can only churn out California lawyers who then get blocked by ABA Luddites at every step.

Hi everybody,

Just find your community. Greatly appreciate, very informative. I am looking for a postgraduate online education for foreigners. My daughter has just compete her LLM and would like to specialize in IP and Internet property.

Not clear to me what the goal is?  Are you going to practice in the EU or US? Many of the US online LLMs are questionnable as far as accredidation.

OK, I'll turn in my law licenses, your flawless logic has convinced me of my errors... :P

Non-Traditional Students / Re: History PhD w/ some interest in law
« on: December 28, 2011, 06:58:53 PM »
I have a PhD in Political Science and am a lawyer. I practice law and am adjunct faculty.  My advice is go for the tenure track job, history jobs are even scarcer than law jobs. If you don't get tenure then switch to law. While starting university salaries are low they go up after a while, you get good benefits, a pension plan, and once you get tenure chances at free travel to conferences, sabbaticals, and a reduced teaching schedule. It also is less work than law and more enjoyable. Besides why would you want to rack up more debt or take yourself out of the job market when you could be arning money?

News Discussion / Re: AAMPLE PROGRAM at NOVA
« on: December 26, 2011, 07:07:25 PM »
Looked kind of lame to me.

But, the point is - it's NOT fruitless, people at graduating from Dl schools, passing the bar, AND practicing law successfully.  It's folks like yourself who refuse to accept that IT IS POSSIBLE and SHOULD be considered in the mix.  As I have stated before, there should a set of standards for licensure - like the bar exam - but how one gets there to take the exam should not be dictated by one "sanctioned" entity,

Exactly 100% correct, the bar exam makes the attorney not the JD, it really seems it is unconsitutional for a private guild to block access to the Judicial branch.  The state bars are largely provincial tools of the ABA. DL attorneys, even only a handful, prove the point.

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