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Messages - jonlevy

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501
Non ABA is not what we are looking for - we are looking for online and correspondence admissions.

Here's the Iowa (on of the good ones) admits with only 5 years PQE without discrimination as to degree:


http://www.iowacourtsonline.org/Professional_Regulation/Bar_Admission__Practice_Rules/Admission_without_Examination/
Applying for Admission without Examination

Iowa offers admission without examination (admission on motion) for attorneys licensed in another state or the District of Columbia who can demonstrate a prolonged period of the actual practice of law without significant character or fitness problems.

 

What are the basic requirements for admission on motion?


The applicant must:

 
         have been admitted to another state of the United States or the District of Columbia,

         have practiced law five full years while licensed within the seven years immediately preceding the date of the application and still holds a law license, 

         be of good moral character, and

         file a certificate of admission, a certificate of regular practice, a certificate of good moral character, and a completed fingerprint card with the Office of Professional Regulation.

 
Who is not eligible for admission on motion?

An applicant is not eligible for admission on motion if:

         the applicant is currently subject to lawyer discipline in another jurisdiction, 

         the applicant failed the Iowa bar examination within five years of the date of the application, or

         the applicant has failed five or more bar examinations.   


502
In Texas, my understanding is that you are allowed to sit for the Texas bar if you practiced 3 out of 5 in California previously.  Although it's not the same as being automatically admitted to the bar, the degree, plus the experience requirement, allows you to sit for the bar exam.

I wish that were true but alas not:

http://www.ble.state.tx.us/FAQ/main_faq.htm

Does Texas recognize J.D. degrees from correspondence or online based law schools?

No. See the following rules in the Rules Governing Admission to the Bar of Texas: III and XIII(a)(2).


4. Can a person from a non-ABA approved law school apply to Texas, assuming the law school is a non-correspondence law school?

Yes, but only if they meet the following requirements:

(a) hold an active, valid law license in another U.S. jurisdiction, and

(b) has practiced in that jurisdiction for a three (3) year period within the previous five (5) calendar years immediately preceding filing an application with this office.

Having these qualifications may enable the applicant to be eligible for the full bar examination. See the Board's U.S. Attorney Admission page.  Recent graduates of non-ABA approved law schools not based on study by correspondence are not eligible to take the Texas Bar Examination.  Foreign-educated attorneys should refer to the Board's Foreign Attorney Admission page for more information.

503
The general proviso written into most bar admission rules is that correspondence school graduates and presumably DL grads cannot qualify under most exceptions that might be available to non ABA grads in general.

504
Barkley had a real school with real law professors and classes and seems to have intended to get ABA accreditation.

The Barkley degrees are real enough - they just are not accredited.

A diploma mill awards a degree for little or no work so that the purchaser can claim they have a degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mills_in_the_United_States

505
Great job on the research!

As to your legality question, since Barkley was not representing itself as something it was not (ABA approved) then I do not see how Kentucky could stop it from setting up shop unless it was making material misrepresentations.  There have been several lawsuits and at least one pending one by a former student pro se who claims Barkley was a RICO enterprise and engaged in loan fraud of some sort.

Novus on the other hand, may cross the line into diploma mill territory which can be illegal.

506
Assuming one passes the California Bar with a DL degree, where can one get admitted excluding Federal Courts and Tribunals based just on one's California bar license.

I would also exclude petitioning as in the case of Massachusetts, New Mexico, and Idaho as that is based on a number of factors besides being a member of the California bar such as residency and individual circumstances. As well as exclude restricted admissions such as corporate attorney and pro hac vice.

1.  Motion in DC after 5 years post qualification experience (PQE)
2.  Take the QLTS exam for England & Wales to become as solicitor after 2 years PQE
3.  Take the Irish QLTT to become a solcitior after one year PQE.
4.  Motion in Iowa after ten years PQE.

Note the ABA chart is often wrong or gives the impression that very limited exceptions apply generally.

Can anyone add non federal and non petition jurisdictions to this list?

507
I will wait for you tell me what I already know - Kentucky does not accredit law schools. If Barkley had obtained ABA approval, Barkley's students could have taken the KY bar.

By the way don't call the state bar, it is the KYBOA you want, here's the numbers:

http://www.kyoba.org/contacts.htm

508
LL - what do you think the equivalent of a ABA JD degree is - it is a LLB or LLM from an an accredited school.  There is no state accreditation scheme in Kentucky. LLBs are no longer awarded in the US but might have been when the rule was originally promulgated. From the point of most state bars non ABA degrees are of so little consequence they are a mere after thought in the rules.


509
So does anyone have any constructive advice or just more rank speculation?  I stand by the suggestion, they should look into getting the 26 ABA credits and take the DC bar. No one is going to honor a non ABA degree from Kentucky when Kentucky does not recognize the degree.

510
No I am correct and you cannot read or apply statutes.

"1) Every applicant for admission to the Kentucky Bar must have completed degree requirements for a J.D. or equivalent professional degree from a law school approved by the American Bar Association or by the Association of American Law Schools.

AAL Schools is this list, I think they are also all ABA accredited:

http://www.aals.org/about_memberschools.php

An equivalent professional degree from an ABA or AALS university would be what - maybe a LLM in comparative common law for foreign law degree holder.

As for other states, we were talking about Kentucky not Massachusetts, Tennessee, Alabama, or California which do have their own acceditation schemes. Do not assume because one state recognizes their own schools that others do.

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