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Messages - legalpractitioner

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281
Online Law Schools / Re: Concord Law JD --- Starting Sept 4, 2012
« on: December 06, 2012, 02:30:04 PM »
I was 34 when I passed the bar and practiced mainly criminal and family law. Now I am in the international law field after going back to school and getting a PhD.

As a non ABA online grad you will not qualify for most government jobs and your colleagues will say nasty things behind your back. If you move outside California - with the exception of DC, you likely will not be admitted to the bar despite the anecdotal stories and wishful thinking you see posted here by non attorneys about petitioning this and that bar.

282
Online Law Schools / Re: Concord Law JD --- Starting Sept 4, 2012
« on: December 03, 2012, 09:17:03 PM »
After 20 years as a lawyer, not having the ABA credential is such a hassle that at times I wish I had just gone back to law school and repeated law school.  On the other hand, not having the ABA degree forces one to think out of the box and I am sure I would have missed out on many interesting cases and opportunities.

283
Very kind of you to make that offer.

284
My point is not to discourage anyone, I am attempting to state that one should get written confirmation that the contemplated course of study will actually work before investing the time and money. Phone conversations are not evidence of anything while a written ruling by the bar would be binding. especially when a procedure already exists for getting that approval.

285
I wrote to Northumbria with that very same question, this is what they wrote back which said nothing about California or anywhere else except New York:

You would be best advised to contact a University in the State in which you wish to practise in the US.  You can work in New York with a UK Law degree but you have to do their Bar exams first.  That doesn’t require a practising certificate for you to do them.  A search on the internet should give you the answer.

Kind regards

[name redacted]
Assistant Administrator

School of Law


 

286
"The bar exam is basically your first year of law courses plus the California Professional Responsibility course.  The LLM in American Legal Sudies  or US Legal Studies all have the first year courses that are tested on the bar exam."

Wrong! 

According to Wikipedia the exam currently tests 17 different subject areas:

 Constitutional Law (Federal)
 Contracts (Common Law and Uniform Commercial Code)
 Criminal Law and Procedure
 Evidence (Federal Rules of Evidence and the California Evidence Code)
 Real Property
 Torts
 Wills (California law)
 Trusts
 Civil Procedure (Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the California Code of Civil Procedure)
 Community Property (California law)
 Professional Responsibility (California law and the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct)
 Business Associations (Corporations, Agency, all forms of Partnerships, and Limited Liability Entities)
 Remedies

287
Before I would recommend spending three years on a program, I'd want something in writing not a phone conversation with someone who may not be there three years from now.  California has a procedure for getting approval of prospective alternative law studies why would you bypass it? Your logic is flawed.

Rule 4.33 Evaluation of study completed or contemplated
An applicant may request that the Committee determine whether general or legal education contemplated or completed by the applicant meets the eligibility requirements of these rules for beginning the study of law, the First-Year Law Students’ Examination or the California Bar Examination. The request must be submitted on the required form with certified transcripts and the fee set forth in the Schedule of Charges and Deadlines.
10 of 25
A written response indicating whether or not the education is sufficient will be issued within sixty days of receipt of the request.

288
That was the whole answer from the Assistant Administrator School of Law.  Does not exactly inspire confidence but does indicate that the degree may be accepted by the NY Bar Examiners when coupled with a LLM.  I am a bit troubled that she refers to a UK law degree in general and not a Northumbria online LLB however.

New York is  a strong ABA state - I think I would think twice before trying an online LLB/LLM combo without becoming a solicitor first.

And again I would stress that English law (Northern Ireland and Scotland are different jurisdictions) does not actually equate to US law. The terms are familiar but the rules are often the opposite as here. Additionally, there is an emphasis on EU law, conveyancing, estates, accounting etc. which has little or no relevance at all to the US.  No US case law will be utlized at all. No Constitutional law.  Criminal and Torts will be different etc. If the goal is to pass the bar, looks like a foolish way to go given the problems with online learning to begin with.

On the other hand, I do think the online LLB would be an excellent degree for some one not actually practicing who needs a law degree as an alternative to a MBA.  The English online LLB will not carry the stigma a US online degree does.

289
I queried Northumbria about their online LLB being eleigible for the US bar, here is their answer:

You would be best advised to contact a University in the State in which you wish to practise in the US.  You can work in New York with a UK Law degree but you have to do their Bar exams first.  That doesn’t require a practising certificate for you to do them.  A search on the internet should give you the answer.

They seem to be saying you can take the New York Bar with online LLB from Northumbria, not a bad at all. I'd rather have the New York than California license any day and the bar will be marginally easier.

290
Correct, the prognosis is very poor for DL students who are not already working in a law related field like law enforcement, law office, the courts or a government agency.

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