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Messages - jonlevy

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101
Non-Traditional Students / Re: Never too late
« on: April 09, 2013, 07:27:15 PM »
Put another way, if you have a Harvard JD you could clerk for a Federal Judge or have the option of representing SSI claimants if that's your cup of tea; unranked and lower ranked school graduates don't have the same band width of options. The lower ranking your school, the fewer options you will have straight out of school.  However, in the scheme of things helping SSI claimants may indeed do more good for society than being the hatchet person for a corporate schill  judge or an insurance company or god forbid a bank!

102
On line degrees are fine as long as you are understand that you need to first pass the California bar and the only other bar that will let you in without an act of God is  DC.

Your clients are not likely to care but opposing counsel and their clients sometimes try to make something of it.

You will also face outright hostility if you apply for a position with a law firm or govt. agency.

Therefore aside from DC and California; that online degree is not recognized as a qualifying law degree by 49 other states (give or take a few like Iowa that may make an exception with 10 years of experience).

103
The problem is the impotent state bar and DAs who do not prosecute so called independent paralegals, non bonded immigration consultants, and sovereign citizens who practice law without a license.  Unleashing a bunch of people who don't have the academic ability to obtain a JD on the public is a poor idea but a great one for law schools who can charge for the degree.

I never under stood why a paralegal would need a Masters degree.  Thery need skills not degrees.  The ones I instructed were too lazy to learn how to use Lexis or WestLaw.

Hispanics can afford attorneys just like everyone else and do not need a special class of legal practitioners to serve them just becuase Mexico has notarios.


104
That's extremely interesting; the mediator certification in particular will be very helpful to your students and any exposure to real clients is another plus.

I am not so enthisiastic about the so called 2 year limited license which in essence licenses paralegals though it might be a revenue booster for law schools.  I used to instruct in a regionally accredited MA in Legal Studies program and I shudder to think of the damage my former students might inflict if permitted to practice even in a limited fashion.

105
As a dean of a CBE law school (Monterey College of Law), I can confirm that what makes California accredited law school programs different is that we are scaled in size and cost to more closely meet the needs of the local community. Our law degree costs about $65K . . . not $150K. As a part-time evening program, our students are encouraged to start working in law-related jobs during law school, not only reducing the need for student loans, but in most cases providing the opportunity to get actual experience in different practice areas (and law firms) to identify a preferred area of practice after graduation. In some ways, our format is much closer to the medical school practicum model than the typical ABA program. I think that you will also find that the bar pass rates for good students at CBE schools is competitive with the unranked ABA law schools.

How do you feel about one of the options of the English system - Bachelors in Law coupled with a 2 year training contract?

Is US law so much more complex than England that it requires 7 years of school?  As someone dually licensed in England and the USA, I would say English law is far more complex as it take into consideration about 500 more years of precedent and the EU legal system as well.

106
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 03, 2013, 12:32:10 PM »
I agree with you that the mere activity of learning the law is well-suited to online study, Jon. But becoming a successful attorney involves more than just rote memorization of esoteric rules and learning to perform legal analysis. What do online programs substitute for the face-to-face relationships you form in brick and mortar law schools? I don't believe that the importance of forging relationships and making friends with your classmates can be overstated. (It would take some effort.) Seeing the same people in classes month after month and year after year cements those relationships. I usually prepare for my exams by sitting alone in my den with the door shut, laboring over practice exams and outlines. But the rest of the time, it seems like a mistake to brush off the all-important element of networking if your goal is to succeed in the legal field.

But why would Law be different from credentialed Psychology, Public Administration or Legal Studies (MASL) online programs? To tell you the truth there is a higher percentage of a-hol;es in the legal field - in all those lawyer jokes there must be a kernel of truth? The whole thing has to do with the ABA, schools that make money from the students and overpaid law professors - online study cuts the costs down fro the student.

107
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 03, 2013, 08:59:05 AM »
One can do all the networking necessary after passing the bar and hanging out at the county court house and attending specialization seminars, after all an online grad is likely going to be working as a solo practitioner or they are operating under some delusion they are a desirable job candidate. 

108
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: taft law school
« on: April 02, 2013, 10:24:35 PM »
Not sure why you would recommend Novus, they are bogus and not registered with California.  Very doubtful a Novus degree would qualify anyone for a bar exam anywhere.

The Novus site is full of official looking garbage but no mention of EVEN ONE sucker graduate who ever passed a bar anywhere.

Taft on the other hand is a real law school with real praticing attorneys who graduated:

http://www.taftu.edu/tls/honoredgrads.htm

109
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: April 01, 2013, 08:47:03 PM »
Example: a minimum security inmate with regular online access might be a good candidate, if the school would admit him. (And why not? He's got nothing but time and it's not like they're serious about producing attorneys.) Another might be a retired senior with loads of free time and curiosity, whose doctor has instructed him to start exercising his mind before he loses it. But that's a gamble, seniors who read this. The cure may become the cause.

The majority of online students for various reasons cannot attend a regular law school, by default many of them will be unqualified to pass the bar becuase they lacks skills, time, money, or stability.  The odds of getting all the way through and passing are somewhere around 20-1 against given a high attrition rate for various reasons usually failure of the FYLSE or lack of time.  However, law is well suited to online study, it's just that about 95% of the students going the online route are unsuitable.  If the ABA would accredit online study, we would see the attrition go to something like even (50-50) odds of passing the bar.  There is nothing unique about study of law that makes it unsuitable for online study, English and South African law schools have been offering law degrees for years which qualify the graduates for a training contract.

110
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: NWCU by the numbers
« on: March 27, 2013, 10:45:53 PM »
June 2012 FYLSE has 31 NWCU First timers taking it and 69 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/Junefylsxstats2012_R.pdf

October 2011 - 31 First Timers from NWCU and 74 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/fyx/FylsxStatsOct2011.pdf

June 2011 41 FT and 78 total
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=I4HxJJNgGJE%3d&tabid=2269&mid=3159

Given that many of these students were stalled and only a third passed - the ongoing enrollment at NWCU is likely less than 200.

The ones that can't get by the FYLSE exam don't count.  The First Timer total would seem to reflect an annual enrollment of of under 100 new students a year even counting the wash outs that don't make it to the FYLSE.

No way the NWCU is collecting tuition at an annual rate of 600 students.

Bottom line, may will try but few succeed because most are unqualified to pass a simple exam.

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