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Messages - Michigan_Saintsfan

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11
General Board / Re: What is an LL.M?
« on: August 25, 2009, 03:28:49 PM »
Quote

I don't understand the expanding number of these programs 

They are HUGE cash cows. The schools usually staff the LLM programs with mostly adjuncts making $1,500 per semester class. This is also why even top tax LLM admissions is quite lax- they just need warm bodies paying tuition.

I get the profit part ok. I do not get how so many buyers are writing the checks.

Agreed that most LLM programs have significant adjunct staff.

I do not agree that top LLM programs have "lax" admissions, or at least not top tax LLM programs (NYU,GT,FL), which is all that I know about. Maybe you meant lax admissions for the suspect-LLMs?

12
General Board / Re: What is an LL.M?
« on: August 25, 2009, 01:04:24 AM »
Don't forget tax LLMs.

Basically, LLMs are for foreign students wanting to practice in the US or for certain specialties. Many LLMs (but not all) are pretty worthless from a career standpoint.

I don't understand the expanding number of these programs and I have to question the value of many of them.

Nevertheless, if you wanted to work in tax, then there's no way you are qualified to do that with a couple of JD-level classes. Maybe there are a few JD tax concentrations that work but you really can't plan to figure out corp, partnership and international tax (especially transfer pricing issues) without the LL.M. experience.

In the area of tax you'll want the LL.M. or at least employers will want you to have it.

13
L.L.M. Board / Re: General Tax LLM INQUIRY
« on: August 09, 2009, 05:36:19 PM »
I have always wanted to be a Tax attorney. I have a BBAin Accounting from a state school; and a JD from a 4tier law school.I am a Licensed Tx attorney and I am finding it hard to get a job/contacts. The past year has been ridiculous for me. I am now thinking about going into a Tax LLM program, to try to rectify my mistake of attending a 4T law school (which was only an issue after I graduated). I have had several internships (including at the FTC), but I remain unable to find a job. I don't want to incur additional loans but I know that if there's no pain, there's no gain. I got admitted to a 1 tier law school for its tax llm program. In the latest rankings it was in the top 20, yet I'm still not sure if it's a worthwhile investment. However, I remain jobless and my student loan reps are stalking me. With no job, job prospects, is it advisable to incur the additional debt, without a guarantee that it will change my standing?


If you "always wanted to be a tax attorney," then why didn't you pursue that in school? You couldn't possibly have thought that an accounting degree qualified you to work in tax. Employers will ask this question.

If you really want tax, as opposed to just really needing a job, then I would guess a JD/CPA would be better for you than JD/LLM. A B4 would look at you. B4 doesn't seem to care so much about the JD school.

BTW-there's only one T1 LLM. I would be shocked to learn you were admitted, even if you're Deborah Schenk's kid.

 

14
L.L.M. Board / Re: Asking questions about a tax LLM is trendy, right?
« on: July 22, 2009, 06:19:15 PM »
(3) Reformed Code. Sheesh, it's not like you can memorize the whole Code or even need to. I'm sure you've noticed or you should have noticed that a lot of stuff from say, the 1954 Code made it to the 1986 Code. You learn the core stuff, learn the tax common law doctrines and then roll with the changes. Don't worry about this one. Seriously. This is far more aggrivating at the state level but still--you can manage it.

He may have been referring to something like a complete overhaul as proposed by Fair Tax advocates.

I had read "reform" to mean eliminating planning opportunities that are viewed as abusive. But you're probably correct. Good catch.

15
L.L.M. Board / Re: Asking questions about a tax LLM is trendy, right?
« on: July 22, 2009, 01:44:57 AM »
Your questions--

(2) Taxtalent is better for this question but beware! Lots of doom and gloom over there these days. 

(3) Reformed Code. Sheesh, it's not like you can memorize the whole Code or even need to. I'm sure you've noticed or you should have noticed that a lot of stuff from say, the 1954 Code made it to the 1986 Code. You learn the core stuff, learn the tax common law doctrines and then roll with the changes. Don't worry about this one. Seriously. This is far more aggrivating at the state level but still--you can manage it.

General note--

I force myself to go to all the state tax section events, with some success. I'm surprised (but kinda glad) by how few students I see doing this. I found a good clerking opportunity so I've been happy doing that and I agree with the other poster (even if for other reasons) who suggested you might consider adding some kind of working experience into your schedule.

I agree with b-f-b that at least some tax classes are hard (Corp, P'ship) but I never had the opportunity to say they're boring. If this isn't something you want to do, don't.

16
L.L.M. Board / Re: Yet Another Tax LLM Question
« on: July 09, 2009, 01:40:07 AM »
I'm hoping to hear some opinions on a probable tax LLM application next September.  I'm an international student who is graduating with a Canadian LL.B and American J.D. this May (dual law degree program).  In the spirit of full disclosure, the U.S. school I currently attend is tier three.  I graduated with a degree in economics/finance in the top 5% of my undergraduate institution.  My first year of law school in Canada was disappointing (finished right in the middle of the pack), but I improved during my second year and finished in the top 20%.  During my last year and a half in the U.S. I have done relatively well and currently sit in the top 4% of the school heading into my final term.  My time here has really peaked my interest in tax law, and I have a 4.0 GPA in the 6 courses I have taken (Basic, Partnership, E/G, Corporate, Policy, and Executive/Deferred Compensation).  I feel strongly that practicing tax law is the proper career path for me to follow.

I know some of my fellow students who have pursued graduate tax work, but mostly in the lower ranked programs.  After doing some preliminary research, I think it is only worth applying to University of Florida, GULC, and NYU.  My strong preference would be to attend NYU, if possible. 

I'm hoping to get a sense of what my chances are from anyone who is familiar with the process.  I'm planning on applying this upcoming fall for entrance in 2010.  Between graduation this May and Sept/2010, I'll be working at a Toronto corporate law firm (minimal tax exposure) for the purposes of fulfilling the requirements for admittance to the Ontario bar.  I also plan on writing the NY State bar exam in July/2010.  I'm hoping this "real world" legal experience will help my application.

Anyways, sorry for the long winded question.  I fully realize that the tax law market is awful right now, but I'm hoping that the situation changes in the next couple of years before I would finish any LLM.  To that extent, I'm also wondering whether my tier three JD (even with good grades) destroys my chances for a biglaw job.  Even if I don't have what it takes for a "premier" big firm job, I obviously want an extra year of school to pay off financially to some degree.

Thanks in advance.


You took most of the right classes but why avoid Int'l tax?? With your background you might consider transfer pricing.

You shouldn't have a problem with FL. If you enjoy def comp and benefits, then GT might be better (in that one single area) than NYU and it's worth applying there. I can't say about NYU but maybe their E-LLM would be a good strategy?  (Does anyone know if it's easier to be admitted or if employers care that it's not the regular NYU LLM???) If no one else from your school gets in first, maybe....

Biglaw seems to go by your JD school and not your LLM school. Everyone knows exceptions but that seems to be the generally-accepted rule.

Note--there are lots of what-are-my-chances threads over at taxtalent.


17
NYU,GT,FL or NW, how bad is it?

If graduates are getting offers, are they taking them? Where are the offers coming from?


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