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BUT, this is the absolute best case scenario in which you land a very high paying job at a top law firm with substantial salary increases and a growing economy that permits the assumption of a consistent bonus ... and of course that you remain at your job for 3 years (not burning out).


December 31, 2006 -- The city largest, most prestigious law firms are suffering from serious brain drain. Young, Gen-X lawyers in their third to fifth year in the business are walking away from their $200,000-a-year positions in record numbers -- at times without another job in view. The reason? They are unhappy with their Blackberry lifestyle -- being tethered to the job 24/7 and having to rush back to the office at a moment notice when e-mail orders pop up on the ubiquitous PDA. The exodus of law firm associates is unprecedented, according to NALP which found that 37% of associates leave large firms within the first 3 years. A whopping 77% of associates leave within 5 years, according to NALP latest survey. That is up sharply from recent years, and the resulting brain drain is wrecking havoc on law firms.

There is a significant drain on your potential as a firm if you cannot mitigate it, says Mike, a partner at a 400-plus lawyer Big Apple firm, said of the young legal eagle exodus. Mike, like many lawyers interviewed for this story, spoke only if neither they or their firm were identified, fearing client losses. While increased attrition is a typical effect of a relatively healthy economy, Mike claimed, It would be a mistake to say it is all driven by the economics. The big-firm brain drain is also giving partners a major case of agita -- forcing them to do the yeoman grunt work usually assigned to associates. In addition, the firms are being forced to scramble to fill the mid-level talent void. Some are even doing the previously unheard of -- hiring from second-tier law schools.

John, a fifth year associate at a prominent Wall Street firm, is, like many young lawyers, walking out the door. He is leaving for a coveted in-house position at an investment bank. \'I am just waiting for my bonus,\' the 31-year-old says. In fact, the next major wave of legal brain drain will occur over the next few weeks as young lawyers jump ship after collecting their bonus checks. \'It is the mid-levels, the 3rd through 5th years that are leaving, so you are losing people you have spent lots of money on training, and just as they start to run things, they leave, and firms become less profitable, Mike, the partner, adds. John, the associate ready to leave, notices the effect of the mid-level brain drain at his own firm. Gone, he said, is the traditional pyramid of power, from the numerous first-year associates up to select first-year partners.

It is gone from a pyramid to a strange hourglass shape, John says. It is bizarre. Now you will see deal teams with a partner and a first-year associate, with nobody in the middle. You should see the partners. They are doing the work of mid-levels to pick up the slack. And even though they make over $1 million, they never see their family. There is little reward in that for me. Tagg Grant, 31, could not agree more. The self-described \'recovering lawyer\' removed himself from firm life last year, as a third-year corporate associate. I did not want to sleep on my office floor anymore or wonder if I had a change of underwear somewhere in my file cabinet, he says.

LOLS the story SURE has nce THAT article was written huh?  What a difference a couple years makes!

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT Prep courses: study before, or no?
« on: March 23, 2011, 05:37:51 PM »
what is the LSAT like can anyone give me a copy of the study for it

If you call up Kaplan, Princeton or any one of the major test companies, they will give you a free diagnostic exam with results that tell you where your weaknesses etc. are. They will try to sell you their program afterward, but the diagnostic is extremely helpful in knowing where you stand and getting a first taste of what the exam is like.

Can also head on over to the site and download their practice test...for free. No sales pitch included.

Black Law Students / Re: 1L's & Current Black Law Students
« on: March 23, 2011, 05:00:28 PM »
Hey guys,..I got a pretty urgent question that needs a reply.

Does URM only apply to US citizens? I'm a black permanent resident,...i keep getting conflicting reports on this. I was looking at the Northwestern application and it says "US citizens only" before the race designation box. It also has a disclaimer saying that schools getting federal assistance must report minority stats.

However some other schools don't have "citizens only" tag,...although they all obviously ask for citizenship. So does the urm thing vary,..or does it only apply to citizens?

This would make a huge difference in the kind of schools i apply to, so I almost can't move forward without knowing this. Thanks.

Often the hr departments and such in this country have no clue about immigration statuses when typing up things like that...

Whatever your race classification was or would be on the US Census, as long as it is not Caucasian/White, you're a URM.

Asians are becoming something of a commodity in URM circles in law school because they are actually rather well represented versus their percentage of the total US population.

If the school wants US citizens only, they are probably trying to prevent international students from skewing their stats. 

But they should not be discounting permanent residents because you are eligible for the same financial aid as a citizen.  So call the school and ask how they want you to list yourself cause that's just weird.

If the other schools don't care, then list yourself as a URM.

"but I was scared, so I work at a hotdog stand......" is less impressive with the ladies than "Yeah I got stuck as general manager at Kmart for awhile, but I have a JD".........who's sausage would you rather swallow? There you go.

I definitely lol'ed!


Quit.  I'm startin' ta get that gospel feelin.  AMENNNNNNNN.

When will people realize that a loser is a loser, whether they be degreed or not?  What is my definition of a loser?  Exactly what Bigs said.  Quit yer bitchin and finger pointing and get OUT there.  Nothing wrong with you volunteering to do some Pro Bono work for the community, since you're ostensibly UNEMPLOYED anyway.  Who knows? You may even meet someone that could help you in your career.

OH...SORRY.  I realize that'll cut into your internet time bitchin about what a raw deal you got.

How very glib of you.  And if it costs them money to step out the door, say, for childcare, for the gas they must use up driving to and from this pro bono place, for the clothes they must obtain or clean...then what?

Someone can go sit in a library and shoot off a blog in between applications to jobs...or can have existing internet  from some neighbor's free wi-fi...

Going out to work actually uses up resources it takes cold hard cash to replace and/or maintain.  Let's be real.

There is a little entitlement to some but a lot of reality to most...and the oversimplified "oh EVERYthing EVERYwhere is like that" in this thread the past couple pages is very thickheaded and not adding any value to the conversation.

If bigs is going to say people who are working hard trying to achieve something don't have time to blog...then we should say he who is supposed to be working hard at passing his classes as a law student doesn't have time to be making these LENGTHY simplistic argumentative defensive rants against anyone not praising the legal industry.

I for one am glad both sides of the coin are under the spotlight for me, because it highlights the fact for me that while I want to be a lawyer, given my situation the only ways that makes sense (going to law school) is a full scholarship at a non-top 10 school or a top 10 (if not top 5) school... someone else with a different background might actually be able to take on significant amounts of debt for law school and have more flexibility on achieving their lawyer dreams than I do.  It's all about self awareness and awareness of the REALITY...and newsflash schools do not usually give such blatantly skewed representations of income and the fate of their graduating classes...the classy thing to do, technically, is to simply not report it at all if less than 80% of the graduating class responds, and to NOT count jobs that did not require a JD!

I mean the legal profession holds one to a higher standard anyway so why WOULDN'T we hold the schools producing said population of the profession to a higher standard than other types of higher education even IF they were all doing that?

It does prove a need to have ultra-sharp research and analysis skills before you even get to law school though...cause if you call a school and they refuse to tell you what percent of their last reported class actually responded to their survey (if their material doesn't say it) can use that to cross them off your list and move on to more open honest schools.  The ABA guides to the law schools give a TON of data and information...make use of your Excel skills and get on it!

And I personally used the info about the lie about real starting salaries for the average Joe Blow New Lawyer and simply CALLED AROUND TO LOCAL LAWYERS in the field(s) I want to work in...and they are generally happy to give you the truth on what you need to do to set yourself up for a j.o.b. in the field, and what the general starting salary range is for a new JD with no experience or only clinical experience... just ask the right questions of the right people.

Shame I have to put in so much legwork before even finishing applications but, researching is fun for me I like I guess that's part of why I won't mind doing it now for myself and later on for a case!

Let's realize the flaws of others and take their doom and gloom with a grain of salt and an eye to the facts, yes, BUT let's be realistic that there was a huge implosion in the legal field with the onset of the The Great Recession and have a little empathy...and the sense to learn from the mistakes of others.


Undergrad student here at SUNY Geneseo, and I want to get into a top school and I will get into a Top school if I apply my time on studying and make wiser desicions. I know this is an overall topic for discussion because the LSAT is extremely important, and difficult test and might I add EXPENSIVE. I saved up a couple thousands but I want to have like a perfect score or close to it, so I will like to start in my Junior year. Is that a good idea or am I waisting my money on the classes by starting early?

My top school choices are;
Harvard Law
Yale Law
Berkley Law
Boston College Law
Boston University

Um, LSAT scores are good to use for applications for 3 years.  Take the LSAT the semester after you are done with your class.  No waiting around hoping to remember the info necessary!  It frees you up that much sooner to deal with the rest of the application materials.

Yep, the time was definitely the biggest obstacle. I thought the arguments seemed somewhat easier than I anticipated--I hope that is a good sign. I had two reading comprehension sections. I think I did GREAT on one and felt rushed and exhausted on the other since it was at the end of the exam. The logic games were a little harder than I was expecting but feel confident with the questions I attempted. All in all, I think I did well but can't really remember much about it other than I felt a tremendous  feeling of relief when it was all over with.

Good luck everyone!

ROFL I distinctly remember that same overwhelming feeling of relief to actually be done with it...heck I STILL feel that way 2 days later! lol

I do normally have a problem staying awake for lengthy standardized I made sure not to get used to caffeine so I could caffeine up for the test.  And it worked. With a Starbucks Doubleshot (the BIG can) before the test and most of another on on the break, I felt like a GI JOE through the whole thing!  Into the next morning...was not sleepy for the LONGEST time. lol.
@ unpreparedness of others, aside from the guy next to me needing to use my sharpener I didn't really sense that.  I was considered late because I misjudged the amount of time it would take for the everlasting long line for fingerprinting to dwindle even though I was there on time, I sat in a nearby room to warm my brain up with a logic game, and ended up walking in during preliminary instructions.  I would have killed myself if I got there on time and ended up kicked out because I sat in a nearby room too long! smh Close call.

I do know Murphy's Law loves to act up in times like this so I left for the site 1 hour before I was to be there (it was a 20 minute trip).  Sure enough, I got off one exit too early and instead of re-routing me, my GPS for some WEIRD reason decided to try and send me back HOME and i had not TOUCHED it!  It was only when I started seeing signs for the highway that goes to my place that I realized it was wrong.  Turned back around, and was definitely glad that I had started out giving myself 3 times the amount of time I needed to get there, because had I given myself even just 15 minutes extra, I might have missed it. My gps never did that before that was quite scary.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT Error!
« on: June 07, 2010, 07:35:55 PM »
I hope you resolved this before today's test, but FYI, whenever it seems like no answer is right or all answers are right, start back from scratch because the bottom line rule in every section is ONE answer is RIGHT and FOUR answers are WRONG.  Two might be good fits with what the question is asking, but one of them is a better fit than the other and therefore one is right and the other is wrong.

That keeps it simple because there are no two answers to any question on these tests.

You should have the answer key to the question you are asking about anyway, go look at the right answer according to the LSAC and then think what situation makes that the right answer.  I am not so good with the reverse analysis but once I get it wrong I know however I was thinking to get to that answer, stop thinking that way.

Without discussing answers of course.

I am relieved, actually, to have one official LSAT at least done and on its way to the record books... even if it turns out I don't like the score and decide to retake, at least a score is going to be there.  It's no longer an incomplete part of the application and I can focus my energies on other things.  Like the personal statement!

What's the next step in the process for you?

As long as he signs it, yeah you can mail it in.

i am currently overseas and my professor has written my letter.
hes asking me if he can just send it to me by PDF so that I can send it.
is it possible that I could just fax it or mail it myself along with the form?

is this allowed in some way possible?

If he MAILS it in, the professor's signature has to be across the seal of the envelope flap.

So it is better he get the pdf and fax it in.

Or have the professor seal it with the cover sheet from LSAC inside, sign the seal, and send it to him INSIDE a bigger envelope.

I think the email is best so he has extra copies if he wants to apply for scholarships and such.

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