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Messages - Outofcollege

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Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: UVa Timeline
« on: March 09, 2006, 05:46:03 PM »
$5 says Waitlist letters just went out.

I'd love to be wrong, as I'm in that midnight email boat as well. But I'm out of state, so despite having above median numbers, I know it is unlikely I will be admitted. When I applied, I did not know how very different the standards were for in and out of state applicants. I otherwise would not have applied, as UVA is not a top choice for me.

Almost half the class has to be from Virginia. People from out of state tend to have Harvard-ish numbers, offsetting lower VA resident numbers. Or so I hear. Anyone more knowledgeable, please stand up.

I'd love to lose $5 and be wrong, but not in the rejection kind of way.


The very fact that you've lived most of your life in Cali tells me you should go to Harvard. Bi-coastal perspective is helpful in law and life. You can spend summers working in LA and will find plenty of people at Harvard who plan to return to California. Consider the east coast a study abroad experience. Obviously your choice comes down to more than just weather (although warmth is tempting). You'll be in a library or classroom working most of the time anyway. Just as eastcoasters need to see Rt. 1 and the Rockies and experience the Cali vibe, westcoasters need to see the Cape and the New England landscape and experience the northeast's vibe.


Dear Law School,

I'm sleeping with the Executive Editor of US News and World Report. I regret to inform you that your decision to reject me will have significant repercussions.

Last laugh,

Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: Write your own rejection
« on: January 14, 2006, 10:34:33 AM »
Dear Applicant,

After carefully reviewing your very impressive application, we have decided to not offer you a seat in our incoming law class. Thank you for your time. Harvard Law appreciates your deep, committed interest in Yale.


Law School Admissions / Re: Should I withdraw from Stanford?
« on: January 12, 2006, 08:48:21 AM »

If you know you're not going, withdraw. You won't be able to get more money out of H/Y with Stanford. H/Y doesn't need to convince you to attend. (Toby might try with tshirts and phone calls, but he probably won't offer more money to a non-URM.) Stanford doesn't dangle money. Your spot will go to someone else eventually, might as well just hurry up the process for someone else. If you do think you'll attend Stanford or Penn, don't withdraw.


My father makes enough money to kiss need-based aid goodbye. But he's not paying for law school--at all--because he paid for undergrad. Plus, I'm an adult no longer living on his dollar.

Has the system screwed me? How can I get around it?

Law School Admissions / Re: Georgetown "Decision"
« on: December 05, 2005, 12:18:56 PM »
I went COMPLETE a long, long time ago.

My status is still COMPLETE.

I won't detail my stats, but I have an above median GPA from a top ranked Ivy, in range LSAT, and relevant WE and soft factors. I'm non-URM.

To those who were given DECISION status last week, did you receive anything in the mail yet? If so, what?


Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: Stanford
« on: November 22, 2005, 12:22:08 PM »
SH, is your next step the ethics of Google? Congrats!

Law School Admissions / Re: More Soft Factors Than Charmin/Snuggle
« on: November 16, 2005, 11:00:20 AM »
I thought his profile did sound whiney and sob story-ish, so it's a difference of interpretation. And I didn't think his ECs backed up the story to create meaningful soft factors (like the ones that will help gain admission). Jeb can hope someone interprets his writing as you did, and not as I did. You never know how the Adcomm will react and how many similar stories they'll hear.

I love triumph stories and genuinely want to attend law school with people who have overcome adversity, but the reality is that there are "overcome adversity" types who also have solid numbers, relevent work experience, etc.  It's great to encourage each other, but we're all strangers and giving him false hope of a clean sweep is just setting him up for disappointment. (People left comments about a clean sweep. I didn't say it was you.)

Law School Admissions / Re: More Soft Factors Than Charmin/Snuggle
« on: November 16, 2005, 09:05:28 AM »
I don't intend to deppreciate Jeb's circumstances and triumphs, but I don't believe that "gay, poor, previously depressed, black cheerleader with poor grades from family of drug addicts" equates to amazing soft factors. Being URM will help him and, depending how he described his reactions to the unfortunate circumstances, growing up poor will contribute to his diversity factor. But soft factors aren't pity factors. In practice, adcomms are not saying, "Oh, we need another gay cheerleader so let's forgive the low gpa." This is law school, not undergrad. Adcomms want people who are going to be strong, hireable lawyers. They want diversity, but not at the expense of success. If I were an adcomm, I'd see Jeb as a huge risk--not because of his background but because of his history of dealing with it. Surely Jeb wrote similar essays to gain Columbia u.g. admission; surely Columbia thought his "will to rise above" would make him a strong student; surely that did not happen for all four/six years. This leaves me wondering, why didn't Jeb make more of his opportunity at Columbia? In law school, will he continue to blame mediocrity on circumstances?

Jeb seems capable of succeeding, but if I were an adcomm, I'd want to see some post-Columbia work experience from Jeb. I'd want to see more of a history of stability and academic/work accomplishment. I don't know too many Jebs, but I do know people with similar URM/socioeco backgrounds who worked and studied a lot, served as mentors to boys like themselves, and still had time for themselves. Jeb's argument would be more compelling if he had volunteered and used his education to help people from backgrounds like his.

Soft factors do not include race/gender/socioeconomic background. Thousands of amazing people apply with these qualities. They contribute to diversity, but are never selected solely because of them. Soft factors are the accomplishments that come from more than just surviving difficult backgrounds (i.e., being a Big Brother/Big Sister for four years in addition to working during UG); from capitalizing on opportunities and great ideas (inventing something, working abroad in a legitimate and challenging job); or from working for a significant period of time in a field that develops expertise applicable to law (i.e., consulting, investment banking, medicine/health, non-profits, environmental groups).

In his LSN profile, Jeb mentioned Yale. People with similar stories do exist at Yale Law, but they also have incredible post-graduate work experience, PhDs/MDs/MAs, and/or great numbers.Forgive me if I sound like a jerk, but let's be real about this game and not add to the expectations of borderline candidates. In the end, that is far more cruel.

I'm not writing to devalue Jeb. If you're reading, Jeb, I genuinely hope you do well. I am not a malicious person, but I'm pretty practical. There will always be a few exceptions, and Jeb I hope you're one of them, but for the most part, people who believe soft factors are about sob stories (and are relying on them for admission) are in for a surprise when they open their law school mail.

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