Law School Discussion

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Messages - bl825

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101
With this P J C. W A R R I O R business, have I just become about a dozen alts opposed to a real poster?

It's just a name change.  No reason for an identity crisis.

102
I don't remember if they make the economic/noneconomic distinction.  But yes to federal power trumping state power.

103
Commerce Clause: federal government can do something because it affects interstate commerce (e.g. regulate violence against women, I don't care what the case law says).

Dormant Commerce Clause: a state government can't do something because it tramples on federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce (e.g. you can't say that only locally produced milk can be sold in your supermarkets).

I think that's right.  People should feel free to step in and correct as necessary.

104
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 03:14:47 PM »
Oh and I don't think a paralegal would actually be allowed to research a minor legal issue, would she?

Certainly.  I think the difference is that you are less likely to see a paralegal do this work at a firm because firms can bill at a higher rate if the lawyer does it.  From what I can tell, paralegals that work "in house" (in a company's legal department) often have more significant responsibilities.

So what exactly can a paralegal NOT do?

A paralegal can not engage in the practice of law.  "Practice of law" will vary slightly depending on the state, but generally a paralegal can not represent another person before a tribunal or in negotiations.  Although a paralegal can not give "legal advice" to a client, I am unaware of any state that bars a paralegal from giving legal advice to a lawyer (writing a memo, for example).

A little more detail, but still a brief explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_of_law

According to that, they're not allowed to engage in doc review (as in looking through documents and coding them relevant/non-relevant), at least in New York.  Seems strange to allow them to research legal issues but not to code documents.

105
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 02:52:02 PM »
No my point= non of us as imprtant as we think we are (except Wally) you guys are just missing it

So I think we all agree then.  Potato Potahto.

I for one am looking forward to my windowless conference room in the basement.  :P

106
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 02:49:16 PM »
Oh and for the record, I'm perfectly willing to get over myself if that will help anything at all.  I've been meaning to do it for a while now anyway.

107
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 02:47:54 PM »
Oh and I don't think a paralegal would actually be allowed to research a minor legal issue, would she?

Certainly.  I think the difference is that you are less likely to see a paralegal do this work at a firm because firms can bill at a higher rate if the lawyer does it.  From what I can tell, paralegals that work "in house" (in a company's legal department) often have more significant responsibilities.

So what exactly can a paralegal NOT do?

Its still doc review pople, you just add in a bit or research, soory if I burt any ones bubble, but that's not what yyou will be doing if you make it past year 3. But just becuase I've clercked for four years, what dodo i know about what lawyers do, ask a 1A he'll no better. Point is most of the time we don't really know what it is that lawyers do becuase firms like to keep us segregated for the big picture

You're not bursting anyone's bubble; if you had said that the first year associates did grunt work that was of questionable importance, I probably wouldn't have disagreed very much.  It's just that the term you're using, well I'm used to it being applied to a very specific activity, which does not involve research of any kind.  Is all.  :)

Yea, and who's using this term to describe the work, people whose whole experince has been LSD or one summer at a frim? Yea, they are experts on what doc review is, its allways what everone else but you does.  ;D

Its doc review people. Its just most donít know any better because thatís all they have done. I can tell you from working for a solo and working for a big firm there a whole lot more to a case than that one little issue you think is so important. Did I know this at first, hell no, its only after working for a bunch of different people in different sized forms on different levels of complexity that I realized a lot of what I did was just busy work a tiny little cog in a machine, that could have been done cheaper by a paralegal but for the firm could not bill his time as legal advice, hence first years or summers got it. 

Point is most of you wonít know this until much later because you wonít have worked on much different until you get to stage where you actually get some resposeablity. Look, donít shoot me, you donít like that aspect of the law, then find a job where you will get to do more right away. Everyone starts at the bottom, even big law associates, and every (including me) thinks what they are personally doing is really, really important. But donít think just because youíre doing it its something special, most time its not, really seriously, believe me Iíve put tons of hours into to something I thought was really important that in all actually was not.

Or you could just say that you're using "doc review" in a broader sense than the rest of us, to include all marginal grunt work and not just looking at boxes of documents.  As far as I can tell, the only disagreement here is on terminology.  ???

Oh and I don't think a paralegal would actually be allowed to research a minor legal issue, would she?

Yes, but she can't bill for it or call it "legal advice" have to have a JD for that, some somtimes you will review what a para does then sign off it on it and now its "legal advice" and can be billed as such. Ok, I've been wiki'ed!

Call it grunt work. Point is, I guess everyone is missing, its all about prospective which most folks donít have until they have been there for awhile so we all think what we are doing is more important than it really is.
Your given a a file, its full of DOCUMENTS, that you REVIEW then write a MEMO on an ISSUE. Call it earth shattering legal research if you want to, but most people who have a few years experice will call it reviewing documents for a clientís file. Youíre not meeting with the client, youíre not deciding what the action is, youíre not deciding strategy, youíre not planning tactics you reviewing documents and writing a memo. It does not have to be sitting in front of a computer screen checking YES/NO to be doc review.

Is everyone happy if I just say yes that memo will be on Supreme Court case your first week and result in changing 30 years of criminal procedure and you get a free dinner and car service home and people will throw themlsves at your feet because you work at firm X? Ok, glad you are all happy now.  :D

Well maybe we'll adopt your terminology in a few years.  Let's see.  We don't disagree on anything substantive, at any rate.

108
I just read LSC and it recommended that people begin outlining for their 1L courses day 1. That seems absurd because people won't know what to outline due to not having the big picture of what the professor is teaching. Using "study time" just to prepare for class seems wasteful since class prep doesn't matter for grades. What should 1Ls do at the early stage of the semester? Also, when should people start outlining?

I don't see why you can't (in some instances) outline from the beginning.  Take the professor's syllabus, build all your notes on the reading/class notes into that file, then review it after each class and try to clean it up and make it more coherent.  It won't be in final form until toward the end of the semester, but at least a lot of the legwork will be done in advance so when you're doing your final revisions, you won't have to do stuff you could have done as you went along.

My thoughts, anyway.

109
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 02:32:14 PM »
Its still doc review pople, you just add in a bit or research, soory if I burt any ones bubble, but that's not what yyou will be doing if you make it past year 3. But just becuase I've clercked for four years, what dodo i know about what lawyers do, ask a 1A he'll no better. Point is most of the time we don't really know what it is that lawyers do becuase firms like to keep us segregated for the big picture

You're not bursting anyone's bubble; if you had said that the first year associates did grunt work that was of questionable importance, I probably wouldn't have disagreed very much.  It's just that the term you're using, well I'm used to it being applied to a very specific activity, which does not involve research of any kind.  Is all.  :)

Yea, and who's using this term to describe the work, people whose whole experince has been LSD or one summer at a frim? Yea, they are experts on what doc review is, its allways what everone else but you does.  ;D

Its doc review people. Its just most donít know any better because thatís all they have done. I can tell you from working for a solo and working for a big firm there a whole lot more to a case than that one little issue you think is so important. Did I know this at first, hell no, its only after working for a bunch of different people in different sized forms on different levels of complexity that I realized a lot of what I did was just busy work a tiny little cog in a machine, that could have been done cheaper by a paralegal but for the firm could not bill his time as legal advice, hence first years or summers got it. 

Point is most of you wonít know this until much later because you wonít have worked on much different until you get to stage where you actually get some resposeablity. Look, donít shoot me, you donít like that aspect of the law, then find a job where you will get to do more right away. Everyone starts at the bottom, even big law associates, and every (including me) thinks what they are personally doing is really, really important. But donít think just because youíre doing it its something special, most time its not, really seriously, believe me Iíve put tons of hours into to something I thought was really important that in all actually was not.

Or you could just say that you're using "doc review" in a broader sense than the rest of us, to include all marginal grunt work and not just looking at boxes of documents.  As far as I can tell, the only disagreement here is on terminology.  ???

Oh and I don't think a paralegal would actually be allowed to research a minor legal issue, would she?

110
General Board / Re: Grades
« on: May 03, 2009, 02:22:01 PM »
Its still doc review pople, you just add in a bit or research, soory if I burt any ones bubble, but that's not what yyou will be doing if you make it past year 3. But just becuase I've clercked for four years, what dodo i know about what lawyers do, ask a 1A he'll no better. Point is most of the time we don't really know what it is that lawyers do becuase firms like to keep us segregated for the big picture

You're not bursting anyone's bubble; if you had said that the first year associates did grunt work that was of questionable importance, I probably wouldn't have disagreed very much.  It's just that the term you're using, well I'm used to it being applied to a very specific activity, which does not involve research of any kind.  Is all.  :)

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