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Messages - TTom

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91
LSAT horror stories / Re: Need some advice
« on: February 10, 2009, 09:03:57 AM »
If you can do well enough on the LSAT to get into a TT I would encourage it. But if all you can muster is a TTT or TTTT, please think carefully before doing it. (You won't.)

BULLCRAP.  Any graduate from any school can get a job in law.  This LSAT is complete crap, and not every school relies on it so heavily.

I work at a law firm that hires interns out of Harvard and Yale and guess what?  All of them have sucked.  They all came to us with a sense of entitlement and they all cheated their way through their internships (by claiming graded credit when they didn't fulfill their obligations to the law firm).  I've witnessed a couple of them (from Yale) flunk the Massachusetts bar.

So scoring high on an LSAT and getting into a top tiered school doesn't mean the student's not an a-hole.  It just means the student's an a-hole with a sense of entitlement.

TTom, I highly encourage you to GO FOR IT.  Study up and take the test a third time in two years.  You seem like a thoughtful person who's discouraged, and don't let the negative blowhards on this site discourage you by saying you're not cut out for it.

If you want it badly enough, then you're cut out for it.  GO FOR IT.  All you really need to practice law is admission to a state bar.  Period.  Build your contacts now, do great in whatever school you attend (on whatever tier you can get into) and GO FOR IT.

I wish you all the best.  And to the blowhards who are negative, I wish all the worst.

This is awful advice. And completely off point. Do you really believe that if you score high on the LSAT that you're an a-hole with a sense of entitlement? I didn't realize that correlation existed. Further, what would that have to do with getting a job?

People can bury there heads in the sand all they want. Not everyone should go to law school. Just like not everyone should go to med school or any other professional school. The market is oversaturated. The economy stinks. Going to a ttt or tttt school is a mistake.

92
I am in the same spot, as I have a full scholarship to a 3L, a half scholarship to a top-40 ranked school, and I am waiting on possible offers at other well-ranked schools.  I am tempted by being relatively free of debt... 

You should know that your job prospects from a tier 1 will be greatly different from those at a tier 2. This is not hype. There are too many schools and employers have too many students to choose between. They are going to take tier 1 over tier 2 any day. So you may not have much debt, but you may not have many job offers either.


93
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Why Rankings Remain Stable OverTime
« on: February 09, 2009, 11:02:08 AM »
As for TJSL, you are also right. Subjective opinion does not mean anything. Yet, subjective opinions affect the rankings...so you speak to my point. As long as some random judge can grade a school's reputation based on the fact that his golf buddy, whom he really admires, graduated from XYZ school, or a clerk from XYZ school screwed up his paperwork ONCE, or he has HEARD A, B & C about XYZ school, the rankings will not be credible.   

one random judge's opinion of a school: probably not so good an indicator (though probably still a better indicator than your opinion, and i don't say that as a put-down).  an average of all judges plus academics plus other important people in the legal profession: probably more meaningful.

Actually, I do not take your remark about my opinion as a putdown, but I would like to engage you on that point. I am...a member of the public. Now, do you think that a random judge's opinion should hold more weight than those from the public? In my opinion, they should be about equal, and here's why.

The public has employed the attorneys who come from these schools. I would be very interested in reading the comments that come from the clients, rating attorneys on such things as "teamwork", "empathy", "competence" (and, yes, clients ARE equipped to assess this), and other qualities. To me, this would be a much more responsible approach than the current practice of narrowly defining and applying a term like "reputation" and then giving it so much weight. No group or segment, much less judges, who have self-interested motives for giving skewed ratings, should be given that much power.

I'll take 10 clients' opinions over one judge's any day of the week and twice on Sunday.   

The "public" doesn't know what they're talking about. Clients either want you to protect them or hurt somebody else, using any means possible. They come to lawyers with unfixable problems, of their own creation, and then get pissed off when an attorney can't help them. They expect miracles.

If you would really taking the opinion of 10 clients over 1 judge then you are an idiot.

The public doesn't know what it's talking about, huh? You obviously have a very limited scope/view of what a "client" looks like, because clients come from all walks of life, with different levels of education, different problems and different views.

You just made the idiotic statement of the year. The "public" that you claim doesn't know what it's talking about consists of EVERYONE, from corporate CEO's to newly migrated American, small business owners. It includes other lawyers who work side-by-side with lawyers. You're telling me that the head of an investment firm is unqualified to rate the quality of the services he has received from a lawyer? You're telling me that a corporate CEO can't rate lawyers?

You're telling me that a small grocery store owner doesn't know if his lawyer was attentive and knowledgable...whether the attorney advised him of all of his options...whether the lawyer came off like an arrogant, pompus punk?!

Maybe you ought to consider what makes a good lawyer.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/LSACREPORTfinal-12.pdf

The proof is in the doing. Reputation should encompass more than popularity; it should involve real assessments of the competence of a school's graduates.

For the record, when I speak of my preference for 10 public opinions over one judge, I am refering to the "random" judges who have been rating schools they know little or nothing about. What makes a random judge's opinion better than anyone else's, the fact that he's a judge? Maybe he's had chances to work with many lawyers from different schools, but so have corporations, non-profits, small businesses and such. And judges can be idiots, too, you know; as a matter of fact, many are. 

We get it, we get it. You go to a crap school and are just trying to rationalize the rankings. Well, if it makes you sleep better, THE RATINGS ARE MEANINGLESS. JUDGES KNOW NOTHING. YOUR SCHOOL IS JUST AS GOOD AS YALE!!!!

Enjoy your delusion.

94
General Board / Re: Salary to expect at Foreclosure Mill firm?
« on: February 09, 2009, 10:58:56 AM »
Quote
Even if it paid 10-20k more a year, why would you go into a field you're not interested in?

Because barring an LRAP, your student loans stay the same no matter where you go?

What I meant was that if the purpose of going to law school was to practice criminal law, why go into another area just because it pays more? Working for a liquor distributor or a police officer (or innumerable other jobs) would pay more, so if its all about making the most money, why stop at doing foreclosure law? Why not do something even more lucrative.

I think the answer is that MiamaLaw didn't have a clear vision of what he wanted to get out of law school, or where he wanted to go afterward.

95
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Why Rankings Remain Stable OverTime
« on: February 08, 2009, 07:05:27 PM »
As for TJSL, you are also right. Subjective opinion does not mean anything. Yet, subjective opinions affect the rankings...so you speak to my point. As long as some random judge can grade a school's reputation based on the fact that his golf buddy, whom he really admires, graduated from XYZ school, or a clerk from XYZ school screwed up his paperwork ONCE, or he has HEARD A, B & C about XYZ school, the rankings will not be credible.   

one random judge's opinion of a school: probably not so good an indicator (though probably still a better indicator than your opinion, and i don't say that as a put-down).  an average of all judges plus academics plus other important people in the legal profession: probably more meaningful.

Actually, I do not take your remark about my opinion as a putdown, but I would like to engage you on that point. I am...a member of the public. Now, do you think that a random judge's opinion should hold more weight than those from the public? In my opinion, they should be about equal, and here's why.

The public has employed the attorneys who come from these schools. I would be very interested in reading the comments that come from the clients, rating attorneys on such things as "teamwork", "empathy", "competence" (and, yes, clients ARE equipped to assess this), and other qualities. To me, this would be a much more responsible approach than the current practice of narrowly defining and applying a term like "reputation" and then giving it so much weight. No group or segment, much less judges, who have self-interested motives for giving skewed ratings, should be given that much power.

I'll take 10 clients' opinions over one judge's any day of the week and twice on Sunday.   

The "public" doesn't know what they're talking about. Clients either want you to protect them or hurt somebody else, using any means possible. They come to lawyers with unfixable problems, of their own creation, and then get pissed off when an attorney can't help them. They expect miracles.

If you would really taking the opinion of 10 clients over 1 judge then you are an idiot.

96
General Board / Re: Declared Unfit to Sit for the Bar...Now What?
« on: February 08, 2009, 12:53:16 AM »
I just thought of something...forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

The problem doesn't appear to be the fact that it happened OR that this person forgot to disclose it. It is what this type of a situation might say about the character of the candidate. Is this a "using a forged parking pass" OR "using a stolen parking pass" situation? Depending on the specific situation, the problem might be what this situation says about the character of the candidate NOT the veracity of complete disclosure.

It might be that even disclosure of this situation might have been a problem...failure to disclose just enhances the problem.

I don't know...just thinking about it.

Good Luck!

I think that's a good point. If he'd disclosed it, it probably wouldn't be an issue, merely a youthful indiscretion. But now that he "forgot" to disclose it, it suddenly carries a lot more weight. 

97
Depaul / Re: Depaul's grading curve
« on: February 07, 2009, 10:15:52 PM »
That pretty much means it would be impossible to lose your scholarship. Back when I was applying to law schools I got a scholarship offer from them and it required that I maintain a 3.3.

And if you got that sweet of a scholarship offer from them, it probably means that they really want you. And if DePaul really wants you, it probably means that a tier 1 sort of wants you. I'd skip DePaul and go to the tier 1, unless you want to work in Chicago. Then I'd stay at DePaul.

Are they still sending out t-shirts?

98
General Board / Re: Declared Unfit to Sit for the Bar...Now What?
« on: February 07, 2009, 07:10:23 PM »
I would like to refrain from stating where I am.  My state does, however, require that you fill out the application for admissions to the bar during your 1L year or else pay a stiff penalty.  Since it is more likely than not that I would practice in this state, it only made sense to go ahead and go through the process.  Basically, they said that my failure to remember to include the information on my applications was not a credible excuse.  It seems that if they do not consider failure to remember as being credible then they just want me to admit that I purposefully avoided the truth, which is a lie.  I think that I will contact an attorney this week.  I really cannot believe that I am having to endure this right now as I am busy writing briefs and trying to improve my first semester grades...

I agree. Failure to remember isn't credible. But I do believe you. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

99
General Board / Re: Declared Unfit to Sit for the Bar...Now What?
« on: February 07, 2009, 12:59:32 PM »
Who knew that a 1L was unfit to sit for the bar? Hilarious.

100
General Board / Re: Declared Unfit to Sit for the Bar...Now What?
« on: February 07, 2009, 12:18:20 PM »
Five years ago in undergrad, I was given a university censure and a year probation for having a parking pass that was not my own.  The censure was imposed while I was studying abroad for a year and when I returned to the US, I had the censure in a stack of mail and since the year probation had already passed, I failed to take a mental note of the incident.  As a result, I did not include the disciplinary action on my law school application nor did I mention it on my application to the bar that I had to fill out this year (1L).  I talked to the Dean at my school a couple of weeks ago and he told me that it would be no problem.  Subsequently, my application to the law school was ammended and I received a letter from the school stating that no action would be taken.  I forwarded all that to the Bar and I just received a certified letter from them stating that upon preliminary evaluation, I currently am unfit to sit for the Bar.  I must now request a hearing to appeal.  Given that I am just a 1L, should I be really concerned about this?  I am really stressing at a time when I am too busy to be stressing about anything but school work.  I feel like this is almost a witch hunt given the nature of the incident and I am astonished that the Bar found my reasoning for omitting the information to truly be "not credible." 

You filled out a bar application as a 1L? Is that specific to the state you plan to practice in?

As for BikePilot's advice, I'd ignore it completely. It's a commonly confused issue but the ABA doesn't have anything to do with your ability to sit for your state's bar (other than the accreditation of schools). It'll be up to your state's highest court or the state bar association (if the court has delegated it that responsibility). So... first step would be to contact the state bar association of the state you're applying to.

I wish you luck, even though your story sounds a bit shady.

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