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Messages - "Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"

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Current Law Students / Re: Quit law school and re-apply?
« on: December 03, 2008, 09:17:32 AM »
And I know I have the intelligence to be at a T15-T25 school, which is where I wanted to be before I started law school.... If I finish my first year, do mediocre on the exams, logically it would make sense to stay for the last two years because the first year is the hardest. 

First, I know quite a few highly intelligent people who went to lower-ranked schools.  If you're holding yourself above you classmates, it's probably difficult for you to make friends there.  These connections are part of what makes LS bearable--and, for many of us, enjoyable.

Secondly, it doesn't make sense "logically" to stay put if you're miserable.  I'm a third-year, and it's plenty of work (although you can elect to take it easier if you wish).  If you don't like your state school, and don't want to work in that state, it absolutely does NOT make sense to stay.  If you're at a lower-ranked school, your degree will still have regional appeal... but it won't be national.  You should transfer to a school in the state where you wish to practice, regardless of whether it falls into the arbitrary "T15-25" range. 

Current Law Students / Re: Quit law school and re-apply?
« on: November 25, 2008, 10:01:56 AM »

On the other hand, if you don't do well on finals this semester, you probably won't be able to transfer anywhere so you'll be stuck. 

Well, if it's just an issue of not liking the atmosphere/location/profs etc, the OP can try to transfer laterally even if s/he is at the median.  This is particularly good if his main issue relates in some way to location.

Current Law Students / Re: Quit law school and re-apply?
« on: November 25, 2008, 02:17:25 AM »
We need more information about your specific dislikes to analyze whether it's a question of not liking LS or not liking YOUR LS.  If it's the latter, you should work your a** off to do well on your finals.... then get to work on your transfer apps. 

Current Law Students / Re: Is this normal salary for law grads?
« on: November 24, 2008, 12:59:00 AM »
You can't.  That's why I'm always amazed by the vitriol unleashed when I tell people to go to top schools, get a HUGE scholarship elsewhere, or bust.

I think the problem with this advice is that you continuously give it to people who have other, non-Biglaw plans for the future (and have figured out a way to pay for these plans).  I agree with you in that I have very little sympathy for people who go to a lower-ranked LS, taking out enormous loans in the process, and believe they will get a high-paying job when they graduate based only on the notion that "lawyers make a lot of money."  Obviously such expectations reflect a failure to do basic research prior to beginning LS.

However, your one-size-fits-all approach doesn't apply to every poster here.  Students committed to working in public interest, for instance, might have gone to the school with the best LRAP program, and may well have reasonable expectations about what they will live on once their loan payments are made.  Others are fortunate to have family money (don't we all wish!).  Non-trads often pay out-of-pocket, and therefore don't incur debt the way younger students do. 

As long as students carefully plan to deal with their post-grad financial situation, why give them such a rough time?

Current Law Students / Re: Jury Questioning
« on: November 12, 2008, 08:32:04 PM »
I'm not sure what you're asking.  Jury members cannot question witnesses. 

They are starting to be able to in some places.

Interesting.  The practice is still pretty rare--15% of state cts and 8% of fed cts allow judicial discretion, and 3 states require that judges entertain jury Qs, according to the WSJ.

However, the accepted practice seems to be that jurors can give Qs to the judge.  Attorneys can object.  If the judge thinks the Q is valid, the JUDGE asks the witness.... so it's not quite the same thing as jurors questioning witnesses.

I am curious as to what the OP was getting at.

Current Law Students / Re: Jury Questioning
« on: November 12, 2008, 11:44:06 AM »
Hey... I'm a senior undergrad journalism/pre-law student at Stony Brook University (in NYS) & I'm doing a report on jury questioning.

As law students--especially the ones focusing on torts/civil procedure--How do you feel your classes are preparing you to handle jury questioning? Are they addressing it? Would you be caught off guard if you were put in a court room today and the jury was allowed to ask the witnesses questions?

If you could reply here or send an email: with an answer (ASAP) I'd be eternally grateful. =D

(also, at the very least give me your first name, if your a 1L,2L, OR 3L, what law school you attend/the state it's in)

I'm not sure what you're asking.  Jury members cannot question witnesses.  Are you talking about voir dire, the process where lawyers question potential jurors to determine their bias?

Most classes do not prepare you for the courtroom, in part because many law students will never be trial lawyers.  However, law schools do offer practical classes in trial advocacy, which I'm currently taking.  We don't do much on voir dire, because it's a rather small part of the case (and if you're really concerned with jury bias, you'd likely use outside jury consultants).

-3L, T10 school


Put in your search criteria and go to town.  Also--although it has fewer midlaw options--for practice specific info check out

Job Search / Re: what to do for 2L summer
« on: October 29, 2008, 09:35:47 PM »
I am curius to know, why do most firm not inerview 3Ls?

Well this year, obviously for economic reasons... as I'm sure you've read, firms already over-hired for 2009, since many offered most of their summer associates... who were hired back in Fall 2007, before the financial crash.

Even in good economic times, re-interviewing as a 3L is an automatic strike against you.  If you were a summer associate at a different firm, other firms will assume some combination of the following:

1.  You didn't get an offer.
2.  You got cold-offered (so even though you're sitting there claiming you have an offer, you actually don't)
3.  You're disloyal to a firm that spent upwards of $50k to recruit you.
4.  You're a perpetual job-switcher, and therefore won't stay long at the firm.
5.  You're not cut out for Biglaw.

Of course, if you work somewhere other than a law firm your 2L summer, you will have a better time with 3L OCI... then you just look indecisive at best, or, at worst, they'll assume you couldn't land a Biglaw gig.... which means they will consider you a "failure." 

Unfair, undoubtedly, but this is what 3Ls are up against.

Current Law Students / Re: Living Expenses Loan?
« on: October 28, 2008, 11:33:16 PM »
I use Citibank Law Loans, but I think the availability of private loans varies by school.  Go see your financial aid office.

Job Search / Re: Clerkship Suitability
« on: October 28, 2008, 09:52:45 AM »
hmmm, that's what i was afraid of. thanks as always folks

Do you have a job lined up?  If you couldn't get a law firm gig, surely you should know that a clerkship is out of the question.  I call flame.

To be fair, he phrased the question in a manner that suggested he wasn't going to get anything especially prestigious.  But, while federal clerkships require strong credentials, plenty of people with rather poor grades end up clerking for magistrates or state courts.  Whether or not those are considered "semi-respectable" is really just a matter of perspective. 

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