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Messages - Denny Shore

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81
Thanks.  While Loyola isn't really on the top of my list, I found out that I would be entitled to a benefactor's scholarshop left by my family. 

What drawbacks are there concerning Loyola?  Why are their admissions easier?  Also, does it hurt me in the long run to get a J.D. from Loyola instead of Tulane or LSU?

Tough questions that many law school applicants face....
The drawbacks are simple:
- recognition
- prestige
- reputation
- job prospects

It all depends on what you plan on doing with your education.  If your goal is to try and get a job in a top tier law firm, your chances of doing so with a degree from Loyola are going to be much lower.  If your goal is to hang your own shingle or work for/with a family member/friend with a smaller firm, it might not matter at all.  If your goal is public defender or state's attorney work, it might matter (I'm not familiar with Louisiana's SA office hiring, so you'll have to figure that out on your own).  Essentially, a top 10% student at Loyola-NO could be viewed by a firm the same way a bottom 1/3 student at LSU might be.  It boils down to reputation and prestige of school.  Many of the bigger firms weigh their own perception of the quality of education more so than class rank/gpa.
Generally speaking, a law degree from LSU or Tulane carries more recognition and prestige than Loyola-NO might.  As a result, a student from LSU or Tulane have an advantage over a student from Loyola in the eyes of potential employers.  If you intend on working for a smaller firm, family/friend, or on your own, it likely won't matter much (or at all).  That's not to say that the degree is diminished, it's just a perception thing that might effect the way your application for employment is viewed.
Loyola likely admits students with a lower gpa/lsat because that's their market - folks who don't qualify for better schools.  Don't feel bad about that.  I'm not judging.  John Marshall in Chicago, for example, was built to fill a need for legal education for women, minorities, etc.  While their rep has improved over the years, they tend to cater primarily to students who can't get into a better law school in Chicago (Kent, DePaul, Northwestern, U of C, Loyola) but still want to attend and practice in Chicago.
Be aware that attending a school with a lower reputation *might* affect your job prospects in the future.  That said, the aba data on loyola-NO shows that they meet or exceed bar passage rates for the state and that 95% of students are employed within 9 months of graduation, so it can't be all bad.
It boils down to what YOU want to do with your JD....

82
Your best option is to retake the test.
That LSAT score doesn't speak well to the law school concept of "LSAT score speaks to ability to pass the bar".  I think it's a BS test, but administrators tend to weigh it heavily as an indicator of your ability to reason, comprehend what you read, and identify issues.  With that GPA, you should definitely look into either a self-study course or a full on Kaplan type thing.
I plugged your numbers into LSAC.org's official guide to law school's ugpa/lsat search and of the schools you wish to attend, only Loyola New Orleans looks probably.
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearch/Search3.aspx?SidString=

83
What makes you think a law school would reject you because they are afraid you'd prefer acceptance to another school?  It seems counterintuitive.  If you applied to Harvard, Yale and Notre Dame (for example), they would likely offer you scholarship money to encourage you to go with them.  I believe they ask this question so they can use it for marketing/data mining.  It also helps them understand who applies to them and why.
Besides, try to remember that all the accredited law schools receive more apps then they can accept.  It's not like there are enough law schools and not enough students applying.  Every rejection letter I got included some ridiculous data like, "XYZ law school received over 5000 applications for the 150 spots available".
Don't worry about this, I doubt it's a problem.

84
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: deferring enrollment
« on: June 29, 2009, 06:01:15 PM »
You'd be better served asking the folks in the financial aid department about this at the school you received a scholarship.  They've heard it all and I have yet to ask a question that was held against me.

It couldn't hurt to ask.  What's the worst that happens?

85
General Board / Re: Do these things happen in law school?
« on: June 29, 2009, 05:59:28 PM »
I've personally seen 1,4, and 5.

The 'brilliant' morons are called 'gunners' in law school (though some gunners are genuinely trying to learn something), and they are the worst.  They tend to slow class lectures down to a ridiculous crawl that can be unbearable.  This tends to be the worst at the beginning and end of the semester.

Drunk people run a real risk of being called on, so they usually just skip that day.  Unlike college, every student gets called on at least once in law school, and usually when they least expect it.  Some folks get called on a lot more than that.  If you show up to class, you have to be prepared for some rigorous explanation.  You'll see just how terrifying this can be first week.

Macho dudes fist fighting?  Never seen this in law school, though I almost had an argument come to blows (long, stupid story).  Cooler heads prevailed.  Physical violence can land you a one way ticket out of law school.

I was shocked when I saw students show up wearing pajama pants and flip-flops to class.  The profs called them out the first time, embarrassed and humiliated them, and it never happened again.

Some folks just prefer to study in the library (I am not one of them).  Some over-study in the library.  At my school, the library tends to be empty or insanely full.

Per ABA rules, you must attend at least 75% of your classes to write for the test, so you cannot blow off class too much.  It is impossible to never show up and still pass because you won't be allowed to take the final, which can be 100% of your grade.

Interestingly, people do get high in law school but are very careful to pretend they don't.  Most students that I found out smoked weed only smoked on weekends after all their work was done or didn't smoke any pot until after finals was over.  I knew a few students who smoked whenever they were done with their work for the day and one guy who smoked every night at 10pm because that was his hard ceiling for how late he was willing to work. 

I've never seen anyone watching porn in the library (or anywhere else for that matter).  Our network blocked anything close to a porn site.  I WAS watching Reno 911 (the movie) on my slingbox in an empty classroom once (I was waiting for class to start and had an hour to kill) and when the topless beach scene came on, I was tapped on the shoulder by one of my female classmates, who told me that she thought the movie was hilarious.  Embarrassed, I quickly shut it down.

86
You forgot to point out that a lot of people skip class, don't study, go to bars, and do well.  So I'm thinking we ought to insult this guy's social life.

Also, as far as Legalines go, they are mainly helpful as review at the end of the semester--just, yeah, not as a daily substitute for the casebook.

I stopped reading his post after the misused apostrophes.  I don't know a single person who claimed to study 10 hours a day while they were really at the bar.  I know a few people who were often at bars, but they certainly didn't claim to work hard.  Mostly you get kids saying they studied 10-12 hours when they actually studied 6.

In conclusion, that guy is an idiot.
I guess since YOU don't know anyone like that, none exists.
You are going to make an incredibly bad lawyer if you continue to assume everyone's life experience simply MUST be the same as yours...
Keep proving your own idiocy.  That's sure to work in your favor.  Here's an idea!  Why not use fallacious logic to argue every point anyone makes?  That way, when you piss everyone else off, this forum can be all yours!
Genius!

87
Also bring:
1) an open mind, cause if you're adamantly stuck to one opinion on something, the prof will probably nail you for it
2) a sense of humor, not all of it has to be serious, sometimes a lighter viewpoint can reveal nuances you might not otherwise find in taking it all serious,
and 3) a thick skin- you'll likely at some point be criticized or told you're wrong by the prof- take it in stride its part of the learning experience
and finally 4)respect for your classmates- they're all intelligent or they wouldn't be there plus you're likely to learn as much if not more from them than the prof

I agree with most of this, especially the respect bits.  However, not every law student in intelligent.  I was once asked by a female classmate if I was a "stewardess" (I'm a dude) because of my rolling book bag.  Stewardess' are called flight attendants now, which wasn't my issue.  My issue was that stewardess' are ALL female.

I also had a fellow classmate scream at a professor during class because he told her to stop asking for help from people around her, he asked HER a question, not her and her friends.

And I think every law student has a story about that person in law school who stayed clueless all semester, claimed to be studying 10 hours a day when they were really at the bars when they weren't in class, and ended up gone because they didn't have any idea what everyone else had learned.  Pretending to be smart doesn't make you smart.  I've known far too many people who got amazing grades in college by slacking their way through it.  Law students are not always intelligent.

I would add one:
respect for your professors.  Trust me, their job is tough.

I'm sure it must be tough to have to publish three, if not four, law review articles before earning tenure.  Also, they grade all those exams twice a year! 
Excellent point.  However, you may be underestimating how difficult it is to teach the law to a class full of students, many of whom believe that they are extremely smart and that law school is merely a formality.  Teaching can be very difficult.  Teachers require patience, the ability to communicate exceptionally well, and a well developed sense for how well their students understand the material as presented.  That said, many law school profs (in my experience) are terrible teachers.  Regardless, it is a solid idea to show them respect, especially in light of the fact that they have control over your grades.  At my school, teachers can raise or lower a grade by up to a full letter based on classroom participation, meaning disrespectful students (there are some) can be dinged a grade for being insufferable pricks....

88

I agree with most of this, especially the respect bits.  However, not every law student in intelligent.  I was once asked by a female classmate if I was a "stewardess" (I'm a dude) because of my rolling book bag.  Stewardess' are called flight attendants now, which wasn't my issue.  My issue was that stewardess' are ALL female.


She was calling you a girl because you have a rolling bag.  Dumbass.  And I find it fascinating that you're calling other people stupid and you don't know the difference between the possessive and plural form of "stewardess".


Since you weren't there, how can you say what she meant?
For my own amusement, allow me to provide my recollection of the actual discussion instead of everyone relying on your fallacious assumptions.  Funny how you call me stupid, then reflect your own stupidity by jumping to a conclusion based on absolutely nothing more than what I wrote.
her (upon seeing my rolling bag): Are you a stewardess?
me: what?
her: you know, your bag.  Are you a stewardess?
me: How could I attend law school full time while being a stewardess?
her: You could totally do that!
me: nope.  Plus, how could I be a stewardess if that term is the female version of the word steward?
her: Oh my god, whatever.
me: All stewardesses are female, are you calling me a woman?
her: no, I'm asking if you are a flight attendant.
me: no.  I am not a flight attendant.  I am especially not a female flight attendant.
That's about how the convo went.
As for your ridiculously childish nitpicking, blow me.  This is a forum, not a grammar competition.  If you enjoy the idea of picking on people for grammatical mistakes, perhaps you would like to revise your erroneous sentence structure.  The word "Dumbass." is not a sentence and it is improper to being a sentence with the word "And".  Just pointing that out makes me feel like a feminine hygiene product.
Additionally, I have other anecdotal evidence that speaks to the person in questions stupidity, but that's not important right now.  What is important is that you have proven to be a grade A feminine hygiene product.  Congratulations!  Your post has accidentally proven my point - there are a lot of people unworthy of respect that are either currently or planning to attend law school.  Sometimes that can be attributed to their intelligence and sometimes that comes down to the fact that some people (read: folks like you) think they are smarter than everyone else and choose to pretend that others around them are morons when, in fact, they are childish buffoons with low self esteem and poor social skills.
Now, go find other posts with spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors.  Please notice them, get all worked up about it, and then shut the f*(k up about it.  Lest we forget, this is an online forum, not a law journal.  Get your head out of your ass and grow up a bit please.  Ok?  Thanks!

89
Also bring:
1) an open mind, cause if you're adamantly stuck to one opinion on something, the prof will probably nail you for it
2) a sense of humor, not all of it has to be serious, sometimes a lighter viewpoint can reveal nuances you might not otherwise find in taking it all serious,
and 3) a thick skin- you'll likely at some point be criticized or told you're wrong by the prof- take it in stride its part of the learning experience
and finally 4)respect for your classmates- they're all intelligent or they wouldn't be there plus you're likely to learn as much if not more from them than the prof

I agree with most of this, especially the respect bits.  However, not every law student in intelligent.  I was once asked by a female classmate if I was a "stewardess" (I'm a dude) because of my rolling book bag.  Stewardess' are called flight attendants now, which wasn't my issue.  My issue was that stewardess' are ALL female.

I also had a fellow classmate scream at a professor during class because he told her to stop asking for help from people around her, he asked HER a question, not her and her friends.

And I think every law student has a story about that person in law school who stayed clueless all semester, claimed to be studying 10 hours a day when they were really at the bars when they weren't in class, and ended up gone because they didn't have any idea what everyone else had learned.  Pretending to be smart doesn't make you smart.  I've known far too many people who got amazing grades in college by slacking their way through it.  Law students are not always intelligent.

I would add one:
respect for your professors.  Trust me, their job is tough.

90
Some profs don't care if you bring commercial outlines to class, which I found somewhat helpful (especially if I was confused about something and needed a quick explanation).
My Torts prof basically followed the gilberts outline almost verbatim, including hypos.

My list:
Pens and paper
notebook
textbook

Having pen and paper is especially useful if your prof draws a visual aid.

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