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Messages - Denny Shore

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121
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 04:12:59 PM »
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.

I go to GW, and in all honesty, if I had had to pay full-price here I wouldn't have gone.  I opted for GW over a top 10 because it saved me substantial sums of money. 

Also, if you read my posts, I don't have a problem with lower ranked schools, they just aren't worth the cost. 

Finally, your situation was different.  You had a moral screw up as a youth.  The OP failed out of law school, and a crappy one at that........

How do you know how good my law school is exactly?

GW is a great school.  According to LSAC, zero 1st years were academically dismissed.  You should know that my school has the highest dismissal rate in the state I live in.  From what I can tell, the school has a policy in place designed to shed about 10% of each entering class.

Can you lay the @#!* off of me and get on with your life, or are you required now to throw a shot my way to prove how big your cock is?

122
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 02:21:46 PM »
Actually I'm happily married.  Thanks for asking.  

It's funny how people attack me for making assumptions, yet many of you do the same.  You assume that because I'm a feminine hygiene product on this board (which I sometimes am), that I must be a freakish loser in real life.  It's amusing.

Anyway, good luck to the OP.  I'm sure you will excel in life letting daddy pave the way for you.  

Hey thanks!  I appreciate you being so NICE and avoiding being a prick.

And just so YOU know, Daddy hasn't paved the way for me before.  My last job was for a fortune 500 and I left it because I wanted to go to law school.  I did just fine without daddy's help.  I guess I should be telling my dad to @#!* off instead of taking his help.  That's what you would do, so it must be a best practice.

I'm sure you will excel at life by utilizing that winning personality and an inability to comprehend and analyze information.

Also, you might consider learning how to communicate with others.  So far, you've made yourself look like a real live a-hole, which I'm sure you reserve for this board only.

Now, can we move on people?
I'd love some actual advice and I'm not terribly happy to have had my thread hijacked by an unhappy, small minded, married male with communication and reading comprehension issues.

123
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 02:04:22 PM »
I don't think the post was mean, it was honest.  That's the problem with some folks on this board.  You come on here wanting people to blow smoke up your ass about your jacked up situations, and when someone tells the truth (which you don't want to hear) you get all fired up.



Well YOU certainly got all fired up.
Now that you've said your peace, will you stop or continue to try and trash me?
Enough already.
Nothing you've said is original or unique.  I've read that all before on various pages.
Your version of honesty isn't rooted in reality, just your own perceptions.  You injected your own fact patterns and continue to display your lack of intellectual comprehension.
I was very specific in requesting help, not asking people to make fun of my father's practice or my desires to be readmitted.  The 'problem' around here is folks like you want to be right instead of helpful.
So, in an effort to make peace:
You are right.  I shouldn't petition for readmission.  I should quit and go do something else with my life.
Thanks for your positive influence.
Now that THAT'S over with, anyone want to help?

124
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 02:00:19 PM »
I'm not even reading your ramble.  You must have a great job now if you have time to sit around writing 5 page novels on discussion boards.

Also, I love your 5 years to partner comment lol.  LoL.  Daddy being a solo with a small firm hardly leads to greatness.  If you are as dumb as your first go with law school proved to be (and likely at a poo school at that), then no amount of connections will save you from yourself.

Good luck.  

My job is freaking sweet.  Today is a light day and the attorneys are mostly out of the office for the jewish holiday.
That said, "Daddy" isn't a solo.  "Daddy", my brother, and another attorney are partners in a firm that has 8 active lawyers and 4 more of counsel.  "Daddy" and his partners have been very active in encouraging me to graduate law school so I can join the firm.  They need help (they are too busy) and think I could be a valuable asset.  Of course, the principal at the medium sized divorce firm hopes that I decide to specialize in that field so she can get me on board too.  And the PI lawyer that I've known for 10 years has also expressed an interest in me doing work with him.

I apologize if my posts are too long for your high intellect to spend the time reading.  For the record, my post was 660 words, including the words I quoted from your post.

Hardly a '5 page' novel.

I would like to invite you to stop reading this thread as you aren't contributing anything of value and have devolved from your initial "Not trying to be mean, but seriously...." to trying to be mean, and seriously.

Thanks, but I think folks like you are the problem around here.  Last I checked, this forum was designed for law students, potential law students, and law school graduates to have open discussions and to provide a forum where people can come for help, advice, and interesting discussions.  You've failed to meet that expectation on many levels.

Instead of trying to 'win' by making fun of me, help or go away.  It's better for your spleen.


125
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 01:26:06 PM »
What do you want to do with the JD though?  Jury duty inspired you?  Sounds like you have watched too much law and order.  I mean, odds are you aren't ever going to get into a reputable prosecutor's office with crap grades and how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?

Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

I mean your friends thought you should have your grade changed?  Give me a break.  This is law school, not kindergarten.

Seriously, I don't think people read what others write and choose to answer based on what they think instead of what is.

So, I'll answer:
"What do you want to do with the JD though?"
Criminal defense work.

"Jury duty inspired you?"
Yes.  My father is a lawyer.  I grew up with it and decided to ignore it.  Jury duty opened my eyes to the beauty of the legal profession that I long ignored.

"Sounds like you have watched too much law and order."
I hate law and order.  Watched it once and thought it was boring.

"I mean, odds are you aren't ever going to get into a reputable prosecutor's office with crap grades and how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?"
Well that's good.  I don't want to be a prosecutor, though if I wanted to I could because my dad knows every prosecutor in my area and is close friends with the States Attorney (who has been to my house for dinner).  Another thing that I guess needs explanation is that I won't have 'crap grades' if I get back in - I would start over as a new student and believe I could get decent grades.

"how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?"
First, I don't plan on getting a low paying job.  I have a decent paying one waiting for me that would evolve into a partnership in less than 5 years.  Second, my law school loans will end up being less than $50k.  So don't sweat how I'm going to pay that off.

"A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures."
This illustrates your youth and inexperience with life.  Some of the world's greatest successes failed, and many many times.
Isaac Newton did poorly in grade school.
Beethoven's music teacher once said of him "as a composer he is hopeless."
When Thomas Edison was a boy his teacher told him he was too stupid to learn anything.
F.W. Woolworth got a job in a dry good store when he was 21, but his employer would not let him wait on customers because he "didn't have enough sense."
Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team.
A newspaper editor fired Walt Disney because he had no good ideas.
Winston Churchill failed the 6th grade.
Steven Spielberg dropped out of high school in his sophomore year. He was persuaded to come back and placed in a learning disabled class. He lasted a month and dropped out of school forever.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/26591

Failure makes you stronger and teaches lessons.  I know far too many incredible and successful lawyers who almost failed out of law school, took the bar 5 times, etc.

"You had your chance and blew it.  Move on."
Now you're just being a male private part.

"Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway."
That's a bizarre statement.  Virtually every law school has a readmission policy in place.  Likely, even yours.  This is an 'elitist' argument, and one based on your personal opinions, not fact.

Thanks for sharing, but I'm not really interested in an argument over whether I should be readmitted or if I am wasting my time.  Unlike the person you THOUGHT you were talking to, I've already made up my mind.  I will be readmitted.  If you want to help, feel free.  If you want to discourage me from trying, you will fail and will be wasting your effort.  So do us both a favor and ignore the thread if your only response is going to be that I should give up.

You will have more time to leave comments on other threads and I won't have to skip over your posts on this thread or form an opinion about you and your level of maturity and understanding of the world.

Thanks!

:-)


126
Once upon a time, they didn't have credit cards or ATM's (OMG SRSLY?!?!?!!!!! LOL) and people used specially marked paper and metal called "money" to exchange for goods and services.  They carried some of this "money" when they went out for entertainment or meals. 


And once upon a time men wore codpieces.  But I'll bet you use more modern methods of covering your genitals, don't you, even though no one is forbidding you from wearing a codpiece. 

Last I checked, codpieces fell out of fashion in the late 1590's.  Credit cards came about in the 1920's, and until the turn of this century 8 years ago, people carried cash with them and used their credit cards sparingly. 

The funny in all this is that your generation is the first to use them almost exclusively.  No surprise that credit card debt is out of control and people outspend their means....

Cash is king and always has been.  No one will ever make fun of you for having it, though wearing a codpiece is likely to cause some embarrassment in social situations.

Very logical argument you make.  In fact, it's a classic example of logical fallacy.  Nice work.

Your argument is that using credit cards exclusively is 'modern' and therefore 'best'?  In the OP's situation (no matter what he says), he would remove the issue by paying with cash, and only for what he owes.  Hence, the best outcome for all involved.

Feel free to explain how going out with only a credit card with people you KNOW want to split up the check makes anyone's life easier.

Or stop wasting my time by arguing that cash is so last week.

127
Try making everyone's life easier and use the calculator that is on pretty much every cell phone on the planet to figure out exactly what you owe, plus tax and tip, then plop it down on the table and start talking about something interesting.  If they don't like it, force them to explain why, loudly, so everyone can hear why the guy who should owe $28 ends up paying $75.  If they don't like that, stop eating dinner with these a-holes and find some cooler friends.

It takes literally 3 minutes tops for four people to figure out exactly what each one owes.  As for the credit card/ATM bull, here's an idea - if you are going to dinner, make sure you have 1 twenty, 1 ten, 2 fives, and ten singles.  If you think you're going to spend more than $50 on dinner for yourself (you aren't a big fat guy, are you?) bring an extra twenty and treat yourself to the extra surf and turf.  Once upon a time, they didn't have credit cards or ATM's (OMG SRSLY?!?!?!!!!! LOL) and people used specially marked paper and metal called "money" to exchange for goods and services.  They carried some of this "money" when they went out for entertainment or meals. 

When they see you've put down a reasonable amount, they should follow suit.  If not, maybe you have bad friends who need to be punished.  In that case, wait until the bill comes, say "Hey, isn't that Kanye West over there?", and run like hell.

That'll learn 'em.

Or, be a pal and ask the waiter to keep you on a separate check.  You can do this discreetly if you are afraid your friends might find out that you don't like paying for some dickwad's expensive cocktails and steak by approaching the waiter shortly after you order your drink while on the way to the bathroom.

I dealt with this when I was 16, so take some advice from a pro - if someone doesn't have enough to pay for their full share, loan them twenty bucks (which you'd have in your pocket if you carried cash) and tell them to pay you back later.

Most of all, the best lesson here is that you should always carry some cash.  Period.  Credit cards and ATM/Debit cards are great, but money is accepted everywhere.  Literally.

I haven't left the house with less than $50 in my wallet since I was 18 years old.  Try it.  You'll have fewer problem like this.



A long diatribe about nothing...

People really get hot and bothered before they even comprehend what is being said.  I don't have any problem telling a waitress to separate a bill, I have a problem with people who are opposed to asking the waitress to do so.  Does that clear things up?

Not a diatribe (and certainly not long!).  I was injecting humor into the discussion.

The truth is, you have a problem with your friends.  They appear to be feminine hygiene product's who don't like the idea of splitting checks.  People who are opposed to asking servers to split tabs are morons.
Go get new friends.  The one's you have are taking advantage of you.

128
General Board / Re: Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 21, 2008, 12:46:36 PM »
Dude if you were that close to failing (likely at a T4), then why are you bothering?  You aren't likely going to have job prospects, what do you want to do as a lawyer?  What's the point?

Not trying to be mean, but seriously....

You haven't been mean (and I appreciate that).
So, as you requested, here's the point:
- I want to be a lawyer.
Good enough?  No?
Okay, here's more:
When I decided to go to law school, it wasn't motivated by money (I had an awesome job, tons of skills, and made high 5 figures, well on my way to six figures).  I was inspired by actual service on a jury.  This is a personal journey.  I have a job waiting for me when I pass the bar.

If you read my long, detailed story, you should see that there were factors that led to testing issues.  Bear in mind that I was the class 'expert' that people bothered (every day) in the library to explain and discuss complex legal concepts.  It got so bad that I would find myself spending more time teaching the law than studying it.  At first, I tried hiding in the library in areas where no one seemed to go.  That didn't work.  People would find me.  Then I started studying in classrooms that weren't being used.  That didn't work either.  Invariably, someone would run into me then email others who would also come find me and I'd be back talking about proximate cause or SOF or UCC.  It got so bad that I had to schedule time to be free for discussions, then would head home and study by myself with my phone off so no one could get to me.  One student who happened to live by me started 'stopping by' randomly and would end up keeping me away from my work to help them with theirs.

To sum up, I understood the material very well and found school to be rather enjoyable.  I'm sick.  I know that now.

I don't think for a second that I can't do it.  I believe, completely, that my test performance was not indicative of my ability.  Every Professor I went to speak to told me that my scores were a complete shock to them.

So the point is - I want to do it because I know I can.  Now that I have the ADD thing managed, I don't think there's a chance I'd do poorly in law school.

Thanks for the post.  I get where you are coming from, really I do.  Many who fail out delude themselves into thinking it was a fluke.  Many who fail out deserved to for one reason or another.  I'm not in the category of people who shouldn't go back.  For some, it's best to let it go and move on.  For me, it would be a waste to do so.

Now, if anyone would like to help, I'd appreciate that too.

Any suggestions as to form, focus, or approach would be great.  I'd absolutely love it if someone who weathered this storm could PM me and shoot me over a copy of what worked for them.

129
Try making everyone's life easier and use the calculator that is on pretty much every cell phone on the planet to figure out exactly what you owe, plus tax and tip, then plop it down on the table and start talking about something interesting.  If they don't like it, force them to explain why, loudly, so everyone can hear why the guy who should owe $28 ends up paying $75.  If they don't like that, stop eating dinner with these a-holes and find some cooler friends.

It takes literally 3 minutes tops for four people to figure out exactly what each one owes.  As for the credit card/ATM bull, here's an idea - if you are going to dinner, make sure you have 1 twenty, 1 ten, 2 fives, and ten singles.  If you think you're going to spend more than $50 on dinner for yourself (you aren't a big fat guy, are you?) bring an extra twenty and treat yourself to the extra surf and turf.  Once upon a time, they didn't have credit cards or ATM's (OMG SRSLY?!?!?!!!!! LOL) and people used specially marked paper and metal called "money" to exchange for goods and services.  They carried some of this "money" when they went out for entertainment or meals. 

When they see you've put down a reasonable amount, they should follow suit.  If not, maybe you have bad friends who need to be punished.  In that case, wait until the bill comes, say "Hey, isn't that Kanye West over there?", and run like hell.

That'll learn 'em.

Or, be a pal and ask the waiter to keep you on a separate check.  You can do this discreetly if you are afraid your friends might find out that you don't like paying for some dickwad's expensive cocktails and steak by approaching the waiter shortly after you order your drink while on the way to the bathroom.

I dealt with this when I was 16, so take some advice from a pro - if someone doesn't have enough to pay for their full share, loan them twenty bucks (which you'd have in your pocket if you carried cash) and tell them to pay you back later.

Most of all, the best lesson here is that you should always carry some cash.  Period.  Credit cards and ATM/Debit cards are great, but money is accepted everywhere.  Literally.

I haven't left the house with less than $50 in my wallet since I was 18 years old.  Try it.  You'll have fewer problem like this.

130
General Board / Petition for readmission - help?
« on: October 20, 2008, 11:01:37 PM »
Howdy,

I've been lurking for some time now and am pretty sure that this isn't going to be pretty.  I need some help and I'm hoping to get some here.  Be gentle.

When I was 19 or so, I was diagnosed with ADHD (maybe ADD, I wasn't paying attention).  I was placed on meds and had bad reactions to them.  Besides being somewhat opposed to the idea of medicating my problem, the drugs made my heart race and I found myself focusing too much on meaningless nonsense.  For example, during logic classes I'd focus on writing examples of common fallacy arguments and, inevitably, my teacher would ask me a question that would require that I had been listening to a word he'd said.

I stopped taking the meds and forced myself to concentrate.  The first few years of college were awful, but the last two were all A's and B's, and I was on the dean's list every semester.  When I got into law school, I was sure that I had figured out how to cope with the distraction and frustration that had made my education challenging.

While I was at law school, I thought I was doing well.  My prof's liked me and when I was called upon to participate, I usually sounded like I knew what I was talking about (except the first time, of course).  I studied hard and worked with other students to make sure I had a good grasp on the subject matter. 

Halfway through the semester (the morning of my only midterm), my grandfather died.  No *&^%.  I took the test and got a C+ on it.  I told my Prof about my grandfather because I had to take a class day off to attend to family stuff.  He was nice about it, but didn't adjust the grade (not my expectation, but some friends think he should have).  The loss of my grandfather hit me hard and I really didn't know how to deal with it.  Being a busy law student, I didn't really have enough time to spend with him as I knew he was dying.  I tried to ignore the loss, and I didn't have time to deal with it until after the semester ended.

When finals came about, I turned into a machine.  I studied every day, 12 or so hours a day Monday through Friday, and spent every waking moment on the weekends eating and reviewing everything about my courses for two weeks.  For the last two weeks before finals, I started a small study group with two guys I know and believe to be smart and capable.  We ran E&E's, law in a flash, commercial outlines, various other problem books, and general on topic discussion.  We did this every day.

My first final was my favorite course, Contracts I.  I knew this class cold and had spent close to half a day teaching a friend how to apply the statute of frauds.  I was confident and calm.  I was also the first one out of the test.  Immediately, I began to wonder if being first out was a good thing or a terrible, awful thing.

The next final, Torts, was the same.  First out.  I was solid in torts, but details are the essence of proper tort analysis.  Uh oh.

My Property final was brutal.  I was the second person to leave.

I figured that I had over prepared and at worst, I'd pass but not by much.  Then I tried to analyze my test performances and realized that one reason I was the first out was that I was anxious, wanted to finish as fast as I could, and felt frustrated throughout the tests.  It took forever to get my grades, and they were a huge shock.  My GPA was below the schools academic dismissal threshold and I was dismissed.  I spoke to every Prof, and none of them were permitted to change my grades (literally, if one prof had raised a grade by half a letter, I'd still be in school).

When I knew nothing could be done, I accepted it an reached out through family and friends to find anyone at my law school that could help me sort through this.  I met with one of the Dean's who is a close friend of a close friend and he put me in touch with a person who has helped other dismissed students get back in.  I made an appointment to see her, but she was all emotional and weird when what I wanted was advice and guidance.  After listening to her shtick about it not being so bad (it is) and how everything is about perspective (mine is that I want to be a lawyer and the school kicked me out) and blah blah.  So after half an hour of her verbally hugging me, she gave me some ridiculous advice that would have me working full time, taking more undergrad course full time, volunteering full time, and who knows, writing a book.  Seriously, I did the math and her idea would have me working, studying, going to school and volunteering 90-100 hours a week.  She did offer to read my petition and give suggestions/advice, which I'll take her up on in a few weeks.

After sulking for a few weeks, my Dad asked me to help out for a few days at his law firm, which was busier than normal.  Three days later, his receptionist quit and he asked me to stay and answer the phones, do some filing, etc until he found a replacement.  Inside of a week, I was working on petitions and expungements.  On the side, I upgraded all their computers and handled a lot of their IT issues.  They found a replacement receptionist and asked me to stay on as a law clerk/IT guy.  For the last few months, I've been busy drafting motions and petitions, doing document review, handling expungements and combing through transcripts looking for issues that can be challenged (on top of implementing a new billing system and fixing various other IT problems).

SO, what I am hoping is that someone out there either submitted a successful petition for readmission or knows someone that did who can dole out some advice or provide me with their winning docs.  Essentially, I think I have a good idea of what to write about, but I'd appreciate any help possible.

I plan on saying that my past performance is not indicative of future results because
- I had been untreated for ADHD (I have since been to a doctor and placed on different meds that don't weird me out at all and seem to be just mild enough to be comfortable, but effective enough to make me more productive and patient) and have corrected that.
- My Grandfathers death had an enormous impact on my ability to perform well.
- I've been working in the legal field since leaving law school and it has increased my desire to become an attorney while improving my skills and knowledge.
- I truly want to be a lawyer and am willing to work at a law firm for bupkies when in my previous career I had been making a high five figure salary and could be doing that now.

Any advice?  What should I emphasize?  Does anyone have a copy of a petition for readmission that worked?  Is anyone else working on one that would be willing to share?

PM me, post it here - whatever you are comfortable with....

Thanks in advance.....


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