Law School Discussion

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Messages - Number81

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41
General Board / Re: Are EC's/Journal really Important?
« on: April 28, 2009, 12:46:20 PM »
Jacy, I believe you go to my school (could be wrong), but I didn't make/do moot court/mock trial.  Sadness.

Thanks for the responses.  I guess I'm going to have to suck it up this next week and try to write on.

42
General Board / Are EC's/Journal really Important?
« on: April 28, 2009, 02:29:54 AM »
I'm a pretty average writer.  I would probably benefit from doing a journal.  I will not make law journal.  I will (probably) make Bankruptcy or International Journal.  I am not in moot court or mock trial and I have basically no great EC's.  Is it a really bad idea not to do Bankruptcy/International Journal?  Will non-biglaw firms and not-really-law-jobs care much?

And, is there any kind of EC that I really need to do?  (I don't have so little on my resume that we struggle to talk during interviews, but I don't have anything other than grades since law school started, basically)

43
General Board / Re: ITT: i discuss midlaw
« on: April 28, 2009, 02:26:39 AM »
I'm really interested in the above question too. Also, are the people who get biglaw (say top 10% or whatever) the ones who have the ability to get midlaw or do midlaw firms go deeper in to the class. I'm talking about non-T14 students.

Can anyone shed some light on this question?  (I hope I didn't skip over the answer!)

According to what I understand, biglaw = grades, merits, and being normal in the interview.  Small firms = networking.  Is midlaw somewhere in between or what?

44
Studying for the LSAT / How important is doing "a" journal?
« on: April 28, 2009, 02:25:26 AM »
I'm a pretty average writer.  I would probably benefit from doing a journal.  I will not make law journal.  I am not in moot court or mock trial and I have basically no great EC's.  Is it a really bad idea not to do Bankruptcy/International Journal?  Will non-biglaw firms and not-really-law-jobs care much?

And, is there any kind of EC that I really need to do?  (I don't have so little on my resume that we struggle to talk during interviews, but I don't have anything other than grades since law school started, basically)

45
Hi friends,

These past couple weeks have been dedicated to thinking of possible uses for my law degree that do not involve working for a large law firm.  This is basically on the advice of my Career Services office, which has encouraged us to consider non-firm jobs.  Also, see AboveTheLaw's sad article.

This section is dedicated to background and skills:
I am 22 (1L).  I go to a T20 law school.  I have good, but not great grades (and would be looking for a biglaw job as of 2 years ago, based on where I'm at).  I have a worthless Political Science degree from a crappy undergrad.  I have no real work experience (interned for USDOC; worked for a midlaw firm; filed taxes).  I don't have any great extracurriculars besides doing some athletic-type stuff.  I have a really clean record.  I am in really good shape.  I can act very sincere and interested.

I am willing to suck it up and not make real money for a couple years.

I basically want to do something that at least makes me very marketable 3-4 years after graduation (and gets pay raises during this time).  I can afford to start at 50k/y, but I would need legitimate pay increases during those 3-4 years, and after that time (or, maybe after a couple more years), I would like the opportunity to make legitimate money.  For example, I was thinking of trying to do a JAG program (which I might not even be selected for), then lateraling into a USAttorney position, then working for a senator, and then becoming a lobbyist and making millions of dollars.

Likes and Dislikes:
Federal government jobs would be fine.  So would private jobs.  Using my law degree would be nice (but not a deal-breaker).  I want challenging work that does not involve pushing paper.  I like economic-type stuff.  I like politics and (much more broadly) analyzing policies.  I like making business decisions, although I don't really like selling things or managing people.  Gathering intelligence seems cool, although I'm not really sure what that means (yet. (and I'm kinda kidding)).  I don't mind moving or doing a little traveling.  I don't mind intensely focusing on details, so long as there is depth to the details.  I don't mind physically active jobs if they give-way to a promising future.  I don't like not understanding how the "Steps" for Federal jobs work, however I do like great job-security and guaranteed, large pay raises without excess accountability.  I may or may not be able to trick the Business school into letting me go into a JD/MBA program.  Other likes:  reasonable work hours, doing important/cool stuff, and being in an environment that lets me "continue my education," whatever that means.  I don't like filling out surveys that start with "Do you like to work outdoors?" or "Do you imagine yourself in the corner of the room?"

So, there we go.  I have been spending the last 2 years expecting to work for a big firm.  That's not happening.  I have no idea what other jobs are out there, so this could be fun.  Also, I'm a currently unemployed 1L, so I have some time to get started.  Hit me!

(p.s. maybe we could make this into a group game!)

46
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: WTF Rankings
« on: April 21, 2009, 10:37:01 PM »
Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Good point, but I disagree.

USN&WR isn't simply listing the "most selective law schools" (and even in that case, merely factoring LSAT/GPA is insufficient).  It is listing the 'best' schools.  Your academic experience will be enhanced when you have a library with plenty of resources and space, when your professors are of high quality, when the school spends money on enhancing your experience, when the school provides the ability to summer in a good firm that will give interesting work (employment %), and when other students are very smart.  All of these factors are relevant in assessing the quality of the legal education.


That said, I don't think USN&WR is perfect.  I think it could add some measurements, use different proportions to come up with rank, and measure things differently.

47
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: New US News Rankings...
« on: April 21, 2009, 06:20:14 PM »
I'll take that bet any day.  Emory's numbers are around the same as GW's. If GW dropped, so too would Emory.

Most importantly, IU would not ever be 23 in any realm of the world.

There are other factors that go into the rankings.  GPA/LSAT for admitted students plays only a small part.

I think it is ridiculous that GWU is not in the top-20, but that's just USN&WR being stupid.  It's not the rankings being fake.

48
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: New US News Rankings...
« on: April 21, 2009, 04:41:30 PM »
I would be very surprised if these were fake.

After briefly looking at this image, the 25-75 GPA/LSAT's look pretty accurate, the changes all seem plausible (except GWU, but every year there is something crazy that happens), and it seems like a pretty legit photograph.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would bet money that these shots are legit.

I am very happy to see Emory is now top-20, but that said, the only thing that matters to me is employment %'s, and USNews doesn't have any affect on that.
I do feel bad for the dudes at GWU.  I consider that school to be the same caliber as Vandy/Texas/UCLA/USC, and it sucks to be 8 spots below where it should be.

49
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: New US News Rankings...
« on: April 20, 2009, 06:38:13 PM »
IU-B...

makes me wonder if i should stay on the waitlist...

any thoughts...?

I'm probably not going to post here again for awhile, but your decision is incredibly easy (if you aren't completely set on practicing in NC).  Take the money and go to UGA.

50
General Board / JAG Questions
« on: April 18, 2009, 12:57:29 PM »
So, after spending far too much time posting on these boards before school started, I've managed to keep myself away for the most part.

Anyway, I have some questions regarding the specifics of the JAG programs for the various branches.  I've read through most of the sites, so I've got the general information, but the military always hides the specifics.

If anyone can answer these questions, that would be excellent.  I realize that the answers may differ significantly between the branches..
(I'm about to finish my 1L year, which may be relevant)

Edit:  After reading over this, my message seems more bratty than it should.  I realize that this is a chance to serve, and that is definitely one of the primary reasons I am interested in becoming a JAG.  I was a military brat, and I understand the risks involved in service, and I can accept them.  But, I'd like to get an understanding of what I can reasonably expect so I can decide if this is the right way for me to have a fulfilling career.  If things go south, I'll handle it, but I'd like to serve in a capacity that I'll enjoy.


(1) How much of a choice do you have about where you're stationed?  How often will you typically get moved around and for how long?  What are the primary bases for JAGs in each branch?

(2) Pay...  I realize there are various tax benefits and housing benefits that go along with base pay.  I also realize you start as an O-2 in the Army/Navy/Air Force, an O-3 in the Coast Guard, and an O-1 in the Marines.  Do you start with 0 years TIS?  Do you get any bonus for being a JAG? 


(3) What is the likelihood of being deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan?
If I am deployed, I realize we're not fighting WWII, and that not a lot of people die.  But, how much danger is a JAG/Marine Officer in over there relative to the other troops?  Given that I won't start until around Fall 2011, is it likely we'll still have a high demand for troops in combat zones?

(4) Is there anything I can do while in law school to increase my pay?  i.e. join the ROTC?  And what about the 2L Summer Internship program?  If I go through that, do I still start off as an O-2 w/o experience when I actually start?  Can I do anything during the school year?  Are there any Loan Repayment programs for a 4 year commitment?  10 years?
(I hate to be so fixated on this, but graduating with $100k in debt is kinda troubling)

(5) What are the "typical" hours like?  What portion is law work?  I realize that if you're deployed, then you are working 24/7.  If not, how often do you have "training exercises?"  What are the hours like in those?

(6)  Will I need to live in a barracks or anything like that on a regular basis?  Will my life be very controlled 24/7 at certain times?  (How often?)

(7) Selectivity ... What is the actual criteria?  What can I do to improve my chances of getting selected? 


So, yeah, that was a lot.  Feel free to pick and choose.  Thanks.

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