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Messages - Number81

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1
2L job search / Re: Mass mail v. email
« on: July 28, 2009, 06:10:01 PM »
I don't have any great tips or anything; it really just should have been a much more smooth process for me.

And Bears, I'm sure you did nothing wrong.

It was a little harder for me, because I am targeting non-vault firms with a summer program, and I wanted to focus on non-NALP firms (although I did include non-Vault firms that were on NALP).  I hadn't heard of "Chambers" and just used Martindale.

NALP is frequently wrong on the recruiting coordinator name/e-mail, so you have to go to the individual firm's website for every firm.  For smaller firms, I made an effort to try and find the practice area that was likely to need the most help, and I crafted my resume/cover letters a little differently with the mail merge script.

And, printing everything out was a 25 hour affair, somehow.  That part sucked.

2
2L job search / Re: Mass mail v. email
« on: July 28, 2009, 02:29:49 PM »
500 pages white paper = $20 (for writing samples [when requested], and unofficial transcripts] ... some of this is excess/left over
175 nice "resume" envelopes = $15 for a pack of 25 * 7 = $105 (I might be wrong on this one; can't remember)
400 sheets of 100% cotton paper = Four 100pg packets costing $20 each = $80
180 stamps * .40 cents per stamp = $72
2 ink cartridges @ $35/e (office depot didn't have the ink to refill my printer cartridge) = $70
Total = $347

I also needed to buy a printer (didn't have one before) and a stapler, but most people don't need those.  Subtracting one ink cartridge, that was another $130 for me, but most people won't need to pay that.

I needed 400 sheets of 100% cotton paper because I used 2 per envelope * 175 = 350 total, and that gave me some left overs for when I made/spotted mistakes (which I did quite often).

I also made an effort to make everything pretty top-of-the-line.  I got the heaviest paper, I always used the best printing quality, I got the nicest envelopes, etc.  So far it does not seem to have been helpful, but I've still got a lot of places to hear back from.  And I guess I just need one single job offer.

As far as time?  Way too long.  From start to finish, this whole process took me 3-4 weeks working pretty hard (although working around ~40h of work per week).  That said, now that I know exactly what I'm doing, I think I could repeat this in half the time this took me (I would guess it took me 120h total, but keep in mind that I also e-mailed almost an equal amount of firms).

3
General Board / Re: Consulting Jobs
« on: July 26, 2009, 07:02:04 PM »
Yeah, I'm not expecting to use my JD in any meaningful way at a consulting firm.  I just assume that since they take kids straight out of undergrad I can land something just because a JD from Emory should mean I'm smart enough to work for a consulting firm (that is not MBB).  I'll just have to learn the specifics as I go -- which is probably the same thing as an undergrad business degree analyst.

The fact that Consulting is hurting is something I didn't realize, though.  That really sucks.  I was under the assumption that it couldn't be that bad because I have a few friends at decent (not great) firms that simply did OK at top ~30 undergrads.  They're making more money in Consulting than it looks like I'll make in law next summer.

4
I agree with the dude who said MBA's are good only if they come from the top schools.

Law is above business in the prestige deal.  Kinda like how medicine is above law.  If you get into a law school that is not Harvard or Stanford, then you would have to do an MBA at a business school that is not as good as where you could get in.

5
General Board / Re: Consulting Jobs
« on: July 26, 2009, 12:06:54 PM »
$70k+bonus?!  That's huge!!
Although, I'm guessing that's what the top 3 firms give out.  They aren't nice enough to list all their associates, but it seems like the JD Associates are HYSCCNP types, and otherwise they have an MBA from a top-3 program or so.  (which is slightly awkward -- Emory law is about as hard to get in to as Harvard business if you look at the test scores & GPA ... but I guess an MBA is actually useful for business work and a JD is not)

6
General Board / Re: Consulting Jobs
« on: July 26, 2009, 02:12:48 AM »
I have a couple friends that are in undergrad (graduating in Dec) that have jobs in consulting firms.  They don't have credentials that are overly impressive and they are making decent enough money (more than I can make)...

7
2L job search / Re: Boston College Law and median grades
« on: July 26, 2009, 01:16:32 AM »
Umm if this is you and you are a rising 2L right now (it sounds like you're a 0L), then you have a 15% chance of getting a job making over 40k pro-rated for the summer, I would guess.

8
Woah, Hawk, you got an interview from a mass mail ITE already?  Well done.  I have received 50+ rejections from mostly midlaw firms, and my top 5% friend has received only rejections from a bunch of V100 firms.  Glad to see that at least some places are responding positively.

9
General Board / Consulting Jobs
« on: July 26, 2009, 01:09:45 AM »
Yeah, so lately I've been exploring lots of career paths.  I have been following up with all the suggestions you dudes have made and I applied (and am applying) to pretty much everything.  It seems like all the other thousands of lawyers and law students are doing the same thing.  Despite a huge time investment thus far, I'm putting the likelihood of landing a real paying law job at "pretty damn low" for next summer.

Anyway, next on the plate is Consulting.

This is something that is super, super appealing to me.  I really wish I pursued this instead of law school (especially now...although I do like research, writing, in-court advocacy, etc.), and don't know how the hell I didn't look into this more.

So, can someone answer some questions?  I tried finding a Consulting forum for this, but there really are not any active ones that I saw.  Feel free to mix and match or just give general answers.  I'm lacking lots of knowledge here.

(1) How high up can I start?(i.e. would I be considered an "analyst" or "associate" after I finished school?)
(2) How early do people start applying for summer positions?  What are they called?(i.e. Summer Associate positions?)  Are they generally paid, and if so, how much?
(3) How much do the not-top-3-firms typically pay for entry level?
(4) Is there anything I can do to make myself more marketable? Is there anything that might not make me more marketable, but that I should do to learn useful stuff for consulting (i.e. read the WSJ)?
(5) How international is consulting? (i.e. do you travel overseas a lot, or generally just work with domestic companies?)
(6) How is the consulting industry doing in the recession?  Will I be able to get a job?
(7) Will I be able to start off doing work that I couldn't do when I was 14?  If not, when will I be able to do something that requires thinking and applying stuff I learn?
(8) How should I apply?  Should I just go to the career section and follow along, or should I do something special?
(9) Is a JD/MBA worth looking into?

And most importantly, (10) Am I qualified for any of the firms?  (33% at Emory, on transactional/business law path, interned for dept of commerce, don't have a business degree of any kind, but very good at business stuff)

10
L.L.M. Board / Re: Asking questions about a tax LLM is trendy, right?
« on: July 26, 2009, 12:41:32 AM »
Well I meant reform in the "something reasonably likely" sense.  I don't expect the Fair Tax to come any time soon.

I believe there was quite a lot of talk from Obama (during the election) about "a complete overhaul" of the tax code so that it is easy for individuals to file taxes without an accountant, and so that various "loop holes" will be closed.  I guess this is lower on his list than health care, so we haven't heard anything about it yet.  But, if we took his rhetoric at face value and assumed he was going to be able to push it through, it seemed concerning for tax lawyers.  Since I don't actually know anything on the subject, however, I'm happy to accept that any chances wouldn't affect tax attorney jobs.

Couple responses:
Quote
So if you were bad at getting a job without OCI as a JD grad you’re going to be in the same boat only with more debt and LLm and still bad at getting a job without the help of OCI.
Ugh, I really am working hard to get a job right now.  That is what is making this so frustrating.  I mass mailed 300 employers using pretty individualized cover letters, and I have had 0 positive responses (lots of negative).  So far I have 2 interviews for OCI, and 1 off-campus interview (and only about 20 or so more employers to go, all off-campus).  I've been doing everything I can to network, and I've met some nice folks...  but most the people I've met are junior associates that are scared to death about their job (I am following your advice and not actually asking them for help yet).  And the partners that I have talked to have suggested trying to stay in school as long as possible -- which is also concerning since more debt + no job is worse than less debt + no job.
And the idea of starting as a law clerk and then working part-time sounds nice, but if I could land something like that then I wouldn't be so damn concerned.  This summer, I had a gig like that lined up, and then the firm didn't get any work so I only ended up getting 5-10 hours a week at a firm with 4 attorneys.  I've e-mailed other firms to work during the school year and they have no work.

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