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Messages - bigs5068
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« on: July 30, 2011, 12:40:16 PM »
You do have to account for the student loan interest as well 8.5 percent generally most t14s are 40 tuition then an additional 20k in living expenses so two years 120,000 accruing 8 percent annually is somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,500 in interest and if you don't get that high paying job the interest will keep blowing up. It is a very tough call graduating debt free will be a lot less stressful, but a t14 school will open more doors.
« on: July 28, 2011, 01:25:14 PM »
Law students are less informed so I am included in this list, but I do not know of any other profession that it is EASY to get into. Finding a job sucks period I have friends in every field and some have made it some have not, but they all say it either was or currently is very difficult. I know Pilots, Nurses, Cops, Firefighters, lawyers, doctors, rocket scientists, bus drivers, computer engineers, architects, and the list goes on and on. Everyone one of them said finding their job sucked! The only job that is literally being handed out is enlisted positions in the military otherwise you are going to have to scrap & claw to find a job. Finding a job as an attorney is no walk in the park, but there are plenty of people that do it. There are also plenty that don't find work and if you expect anyone to be impressed that you have a J.D. you are going to be in for a rude awakening. There are literally millions of lawyers in America and your going to have to bust your ass to be good enough to have someone pay you to be a lawyer. The same is true for any other profession.
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:35:27 PM »
There were a bunch of people from the New York Schools where I worked the majority were from CUNY-Queens or New York Law School. The rest in my department were from Cardozo and Brooklyn then there was one from NYU and one from Penn. Nobody there knew anything about non-east coast schools and I never met an attorney there in the whole place that wasn't from the area. I'm sure there had to have been attorneys from other areas, but I just never met them. I sat in on interviews for attorneys and there were a lot from CUNY, New York Law School, Harvard, Columbia, the list went on. CUNY grads were in the running and got hired at the New York City Law Department. I had to interact a lot with the New York child services and the Firefighter and Police Attorneys and there were some from CUNY there as well.
I think if you want to be in New York then go to school in New York. You will meet judges, attorneys, students, etc in the New York area if you live in New York. You won't meet them in Colorado. I am sure Colorado is GREAT for Colorado, but you will be unable to build any connections or learn how the courts etc work in New York unless your there. I simply can't imagine any firm reaching out to Colorado when New York has an army of law schools.
No I don't know if you have to go to CUNY with your performance etc you might be able to get into Fordham, which I think is worth the money the rest of the NY schools not so much. I also thing Rutgers offers a reasonable tuition rate if you can get residency in Jersey not sure though, but it is an option.
« on: July 26, 2011, 01:32:51 PM »
If the tier 3 is somewhere you don't want to be then transferring is probably a good idea, but it sounds like that is not the case. Location is probably the most important thing when choosing your school at least in my opinion with cost as a close second. The rankings are pretty irrelevant, but the ELITE schools which are essentially the T14 are often worth the money. Whatever the location is should be a consideration and having no debt would be a lot less stressful.
« on: July 25, 2011, 06:06:30 PM »
I would go with Buffalo the rankings are kind of a joke outside of the top schools and GW is not worth an additional 225k not to mention these loans accrue roughly 8% interest, which will be another 16,000 annually to be paying off.
This is my just two cents and I maybe I am completely wrong unless you are going to an ELITE school and ELITE means Harvard, Yale, Stanford, that level. George Washington is in D.C. and many people want to move there and you will be competition to get experience with Harvard, Yale, Georgetown students and realistically GW doesn't compare with those schools neither does Buffalo, but I imagine in Buffalo your only competition will be students from Buffalo.
With all that being I think where you want to end up makes a difference if you want to live in Buffalo then you should 100% go to Buffallo. If you want to be in D.C. then obviously go to GW.
The law school decision is a difficult one, but there is honestly no such thing as a "better" school all ABA schools literally teach you the same thing. You read Supreme Court cases and there is no special editions for different law schools it is literally all the same. If you go to a very prestigious school then the name itself might be of use, but at the end of the day you are either going to be a good attorney or a bad one.
As a sidenote the rankings are basically a joke. U.S. News is a for-profit magazine with no authority whatsoever the ABA, LSAC, and any recognized authority tells students to not pay attention to them.
Here are some articles on it directly from LSAC. http://www.lsac.org/LsacResources/Research/GR/GR-07-02.asphttp://www.lsac.org/LsacResources/Research/GR/GR-07-02.pdf
I would honestly get out of law school as cheaply as possible unless your going to an ELITE school, but that is my two cents and people have different views.
« on: July 25, 2011, 11:38:50 AM »
Well I respectfully disagree with everyone. The most important thing is location it sounds like you want to be in New York and if that is the case you should go to law school in New York. CUNY offers a great tuition rate and I worked with numerous grads fromCUNY and other New York law schools at the New York City Attorney's office. I can't recall anyone from Colorado working there. The reality is you can start interning and building connections in New York if you go to law school in New York. It will be difficult to interview with anyone while your in school at Colorado to get a summer job and I am speculating there are not a lot of New York employers offering OCI at Colorado. You couldn't just up and move there then find a job over the summer, because by the time you did that summer would be over. It is possible, but it would be a real burden I'm sure.
Then it also sounds like you might be a bit homesick. I imagine Colorado is a LOT different than New York and you don't have your friends and family from N.Y. and this can be difficult. There is a lot to be said about your overall happiness over the name of a law school and Colorado is not that prestigious of a school it could be a tier 2 by the time you graduate. In 2009 Colorado was 38th, 2010 it was 45th, 2011 it is currently in a 3 way tie for 47th. What is changing at this school I am sure nothing the rankings make little sense and are based mostly on judges filling out scantrons. So some judge in Miami checked a 3 and Colorado went down a few spots and it may go down more. The ranking is pretty much irrelevant because Colorado although good is not that impressive. It is 47th and a 3 way tie for 47th so it might be 50th. If it was Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, something with a truly impressive name then the prestige might be worth the two years and additional cost. However, if it is Colorado and I can't imagine many people in New York being that impressed by a Colorado degree.
Here is some more realistic job information form both schools as you can see at either school the majority of students did not have a reportable salary. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=cuny-queens&show=flow
20% at CUNY with lower salaries. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=colorado&show=flow
34% had reportable salaries at Colorado with higher numbers.
As you can see the tier 1 does not open does not open that many more doors.
You don't necessarily have to go to CUNY either you may be able to get into Fordham, which has some pretty good numbers employment size http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=fordham&show=flow
64% of the people had jobs.
Still CUNY offers great tuition and if you want to do public interest work in New York pay cheap tuition and save money by living at home it could work out nicely. Kind of a long rant and hopefully it helps.
« on: July 21, 2011, 12:35:29 PM »
Maybe you will get an F, but if you studied enough to realize what you did wrong then you probably knew enough to pass. Even if you did bomb it there is nothing you can do about it now except sit and wait for the results.
« on: July 21, 2011, 12:33:23 PM »
It helps to be a Hispanic, but a practice LSAT score doesn't mean anything unfortunately. The 3.5 is good, but schools don't really care if you got a 3.5 in Math or Basket Weaving. If you do end up with a 167 and a 3.5 you will have a lot of options. Some tier 1 schools will let you in and you will pay full price. While many Tier 2,3,4 schools will offer you substantial scholarship money. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a great site to look at to determine what schools you can get into and how much scholarship money you can expect.
« on: July 21, 2011, 11:39:54 AM »
Those are really favorable conditions so it is not a bad deal, but I would still wait and see what your options are when you apply to all different schools . Apply early on the first day apps out generally September or October 1st and a lot of scholarship money will be available. You can also go to those schools and get out relatively debt free, which would be awesome.
One other thing if you want to live in Wisconsin I would highly recommend going to law school in Wisconsin. Generally you want to go to school where you want to live. Wisconsin is also different because they have the degree privilege or at least they did and if you attend Wisconsin or Marquette you automatically pass the bar in Wisconsin, which would alleviate a lot of stress.
« on: July 20, 2011, 04:34:17 PM »
I was in an almost identical situation in 2008 and law school is not something to rush into. When you enroll in a law school odds are that is where you are staying especially if you are intending to transfer up. To transfer up you basically need to be in the top 20% of the class and there is an 80% chance you won't be in the top 20%. Law students at any ABA school are smart and everyone on the first day thinks they will be in the top 20% and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out how that work. Now Ohio Northern, Hamline etc are ok schools, but they are offering you money for your numbers so they can boost their rankings. As soon as they can report your score your numbers mean nothing and how well you perform in school will be how they judge you.
I am guessing Ohio Northern & Hamline put some kind of conditions on your scholarship such as keeping a 3.0 or being in some percentage of the class. A 3.0 sounds easy, but in law school is not generally only 35% of first year students can have a 3.0 so there is a 65% chance you will lose it for your second and third years. You will also not be able to transfer and you will be stuck paying full tuition at a school you never really wanted to go to.
Bottom line is DO NOT go to law school intending to transfer, because odds are it will not happen. Also choose a school you will be happy with and don't rush into anything. Law school is a 100,000+ 3 year commitment and this is a big deal. Do not rush into anything. I would wait to apply until next cycle and see what your real options are. As a sidenote you should attend an LSAC forum before applying and you will get numerous fee waviers so you can apply to a lot more schools and really see what you are worth.
Good luck to you.
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