Law School Discussion

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Messages - bigs5068

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21
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 17, 2011, 11:54:43 AM »
I didn't read every comment, but a lot said they found jobs and a lot said they didn't. This firm suing the schools I am interested to see how far that goes I'm guessing nowhere. I hope the judge in each case brings out each plaintiff's personal statement saying they can overcome challenges, blah blah. 

Education does not guarantee you a job in anything and I don't know why they are suing. It is going to be as successful as people suing the California Bar for being to hard they will lose. Yes that has happened numerous times and every time the same result in California. It's a standardized test that plenty of people have passed instead of litigating the issue why don't you study. Same principal here plenty of law graduates find jobs instead of litigating the issue why don't you focus on applying to jobs.

22
I agree at least law schools have a similar curriculum and it is somewhat measurable although their formula makes little sense to me. However, this goes to my larger point of U.S. News ranking  everything  Hospitals, undergrads, law schools, pretty soon they will be choosing who plays in the BCS National Championship. I don't understand how a group of people in a magazine got together with no authority and made a list that everybody buys into.

Hospitals
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/rankings how do they rank a hospital?  I don't see the formula listed, but how can you rank a hospital? Why and How is UCSF a better or worse hosptial than Stanford?  It's absurd, but my friend is a doctor that works at a  "ranked" hospital and people fly from far off places often spending every dime they have to attend this "ranked"  hospital.  However, what U.S News thinks is a good hospital doesn't cure cancer. Thats what is really sad to him many people fly out thinking this hospital will cure their cancer, because it is "ranked" so they spend every penny they have to come to his hospital and generally people with terminal cancer die no matter what the hospital is "ranked". It is truly sad and no matter U.S. News ranks these hospitals there is not a cure for cancer yet. It is just sad there is no other way to put it, but that is an example of people making life altering decision based on these rankings that have no legitimate authority or methodology. People just blindly believe it and I always ask WHY?

It's just crazy how much power U.S. News has and people don't blink an eye at it. This is a just magazine offering an opinion to make some money, but people take it literally and make life altering choices such as what doctor to see, what school to go to, etc etc. I think it is really sad, but I can't do much more that rant about it and hopefully some people will see the absurdity of make life altering decisions based on what one magazine with no authority or legitimatize methodology thinks.


23
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 14, 2011, 02:28:57 PM »
That goes to my other point it is a projection, which is complete B.S. anyways. I guarantee you none of what they say today on any of those jobs will be accurate. There is no way to predict how economy in generally goes  if the government was capable of doing that maybe they would be 14 trillion in debt.

If they can't get a guesstimate on a large scale how can they possibly project all the different factors that come into play for a specific industry. If another 9/11 attack thing happens tourism, air travel will go down signfianclty hurting pilots. If Obamacare is passed the health care profession will be affect maybe positively maybe negatively, but it is certainly a big reform that will have an impact and nobody knows what will happen with that.


If in 2018 Nurses have horrible job prospects will anyone say the Department of Labor in 2011 really screwed up. Answer is no they will change their prediction next year and the year after that and nobody will even know what is going on. So point of the rant who cares what some government entity projects 10 years down the future.

24
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 14, 2011, 12:54:28 PM »
It can be a bad long term investment for sure. It is not for everybody that is for sure and the reality is in 5-10 years your either going to be a good lawyer or your not. At that point your school is no longer responsible. If your good you are likely to earn something if your not good then people won't want you. The law is something you can see clear cut results in no matter what your area your in. If your a litigator you either win trials or you don't. If you draft wills they go smoothly or they don't. If you write contracts that always end up in litigation then that speaks to your abilities. It goes on and on the more screwups you have the less people will want from you. The more successes you have the more people will want from you.

As far as the KEEN competition all the jobs I listed except for nursing say job prospects will be competitive.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos038.htm
A growing number of students are graduating with architectural degrees and some competition for entry-level jobs can be anticipated. Competition will be especially keen for jobs at the most prestigious architectural firms as prospective architects try to build their reputation. Prospective architects who have had internships while in school will have an advantage in obtaining positions after graduation. Opportunities will be best for those architects who are able to distinguish themselves from others with their creativity.

Architecture graduates may face competition, especially for jobs in the most prestigious firms.
About 21 percent of architects are self-employed—almost 3 times the proportion for all occupations.

In recent years, some architecture firms have outsourced the drafting of construction documents and basic design for large-scale commercial and residential projects to architecture firms overseas. This trend is expected to continue and may have a negative impact on employment growth for lower-level architects and interns who would normally gain experience by producing these drawings.

Pilots http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos107.htm
Pilots attempting to get jobs at the major airlines will face strong competition, as those firms tend to attract many more applicants than the number of job openings. Applicants also will have to compete with laid-off pilots for any available jobs. Pilots who have logged the greatest number of flying hours using sophisticated equipment typically have the best prospects. For this reason, military pilots often have an advantage over other applicants.

Nurses http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm

Although faster employment growth is projected in physicians' offices and outpatient care centers, RNs may face greater competition for these positions because they generally offer regular working hours and more comfortable working environments.

It does say the growth prospects are excellent to work in inner city hospitals in off hours etc, but I am guessing there are as many nursing students that want that gig as law studnents want to document review.

These are the only 3 careers I looked up and I am sure if I continue the Bureau will say everyone faces competition. Finding a job you like, that pays well, etc is hard no matter what your doing. Law students are the only people that have to fight for jobs if these bloggers etc ever looked outside their law school bubble they would realize that.

25
http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/07/cooking-books-us-news-college-rankings.html

An article criticizing the formula of U.S News rankings for overall universities not law schools. Some interesting points I thought.

26
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 13, 2011, 05:31:36 PM »
I am behind you 100% I don't think you should go to law school for the money. I don't think you should undertake any type of educational undertaking for the money, because no job can guarantee you a lot of money. Law school is also likely one of the worst short term investments, but a great long term investment. In reality there are not that many people that have a J.D. and passed the bar. Granted there is when everyone is competiing for a job right when they graduate, but the more experience you get the easier it becomes. As you have seen you now have several offers and you are a year out? right? See where you are 5 years by then you probably won't even posting on this board you will be further along and likely not worrying about it. However, yea it sucks getting out with a 100k + in debt and having fierce competition for entry level jobs, but I don't know many lawyers that have said it was much different for them than it is now. Law has always sucked to start out in there is a lot to know and when your a first year person you don't and can't know it all.

Again the same is pretty much every true for every profession. Every pilot has to jump through a bunch of hoops before they fly their first commercial flight. A doctor has to go to through a bunch of hoops to do their first surgery. A lawyer has to go through a bunch of hoops to do their first trial.  Nobody anywhere starts at the top. Even Lebron James had to pay his rookie dues and bring donuts to practice. He also had to take the Collective Bargaining Agreement and made 4.5 million per year obviously not chump change, but now that he has been in the league for 7+ years he is making serious money. It takes time, which is what I don't think students in any profession seem to understand. Even with time, hard work, etc it may never work out. It is hard to become a millionaire always has been always will be.

27
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 13, 2011, 12:52:59 PM »
Well that guy will disagree with anyone someone could come to his house hand him a job and he would insult them. People like that are hopeless and if they were born into the Kennedy Family they would find something to whine about.

This whole department of labor department 44,000 graduates for 98,000 jobs in a that doesn't sound that bad. I don't know how much stock to put in it anyways it is a government "projection" government predictions haven't been very accurate in the past so why consider it now. Even if it is an accurate projection show one other profession that is screaming we need more people. I can't think of one I have friends in about 20 different professions who all say how competitive it is pilots, nursing, architects, firefighters, teachers, etc all say man it is so hard find a job right now. Why the population is bigger than ever and global travel is much easier so many foreign students and professionals take jobs as well. Law is probably less competitive than a lot of other fields not that many people have J.D.'s it is still very competitive and far from a guarantee of anything, but this blog poster is a perpetual whiner and people of his/her elk will always find something to complain about.


I just looked for pilots, architects, lawyers, and nurses. Lawyers were in the middle as far as growth 13%. Pilots at the lowest growing 8%. Nurses were growing at the highest rate 22%.

Here is the info

Pilots
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos107.htm#outlook

Lawyers
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm

Nurses
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm

Architect
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos038.htm

Lawyers don't really have it better or worse than these 4 professions I randomly choose. Nursing looks better, but many of my friends tell who work in hospitals say what happens with Obamacare will make a drastic difference how true that is or not nobody knows it is what they are "projecting" so maybe it will be a lot worse if and when the Supreme Court ever decides the issue.

Lawyers don't have it any better or worse than anybody else if third tier reality would look outside of his whinny bubble maybe he/she would realize that.

28
General Board / Re: Why Law School is Still Worth It...
« on: October 12, 2011, 06:51:46 PM »
Well this article seems to be on point with everything I have ever thought. Good find!

29
I agree with everything you said it will be hard partiucarly if your going to a lower ranked school don't have connections etc. It is also very expensive to go to law school, but so is every other form of education. Architects, Business People, Doctors, Nurses list goes on and on in these professions if you graduate from Harvard will have more opportunities as an architect etc. The same logic you use applies to basically every profession I can think of so what do you do? Most people can't get into top tier schools for anything that is why Harvard is top tier if you can't get into Harvard law you probably couldn't get into Harvard nursing, architecture etc.

As far as the bureau of labor goes what profession is understaffed right now? America's population is growing at an exponential rate and with the world more connected many foreign people come here taking jobs. As a result finding gainful employment has never been more competitive and it applies to basically everything I can think of not law school alone. Life is hard and it is always hard to get your start and you may never get it.

People always talk about these connections as well as job things that you are either born into or not. However, you can make connections that is fully within your control in any profession. In my life I have met many people through basketball and gotten opportunities from it. Everybody is basically good at something and if your a person that has no interests that would allow you to connect with people well maybe it isn't your profession or school that is holding you back maybe it's you.

Again, I agree it is expensive with no guarantee of anything, but what else is there? If there is a guaranteed path to success I would get on it, but nobody knows the answer to that one. I strongly agree with getting out with as little debt as possible with law school merit scholarships so easy to manipulate it is a good idea to get out of law school with as little debt as possible.

30
General Board / Re: 1Ls: How are you doing after the first month+?
« on: October 10, 2011, 07:05:40 PM »
Also do practice exams TIMED! Many of the first year essays are racehorse and you need to know how balance your time etc. Many people first semester complained about running out of time etc and you can know the law backwards and forwards if you don't write half the stuff down because you ran out of time your not getting good grade. You need to learn how organize and outline your answers as well as know how much time you can realistically devote to each topic.

Another thing I thing that is extremely important is to use headings to separate your topics. It won't necessarily give you more points, but in reality a well organized easy to follow exam will make your professor pleased when they are taking 100 or so of them home.

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