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Messages - TheCause

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41
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 11:42:52 AM »
Why this country alone?  Why not the world?

Protecting this country and protecting the world are not mutually exclusive.

Which constitution?  Oh, THE Constitution, with a capital "C"?  Is the National Archives not doing its job?  Does it need a new case?  More UV light protection?

Sorry about my capitalization problem. 

Yay!  States' Rights!

It may seem old fashioned because of interstate/international commerce and communication, but the states still have an important place in government.  The federal government is becoming far to substantial.


"This country"?  What, its leaders?  The actions of those leaders?  Its pop culture?  Its amber waves of grain? Can you be more specific about what it is I'm supposed to be teaching my children (other than, of course, that "this country" was built on the bones and stolen land of their ancestors.)

Teach your children to think for themselves, to have minds of their own, and to decide what is true based on the evidence.  Also teach them that there are many great reasons to choose to live in the USA other than default or convenience. 
Teach them to take the pledge of allegiance seriously.
Teach them to honor the laws of the land.

All religions?  Or yours?  (Edited to note that Catholicism is a pretty rabidly "socialist" religion - shouldn't we be encouraging an assault on it?)

Yes, all religions.   Many religions are socialistic.   I see nothing wrong with private religious institutions seeking to help the poor and promote charity by the wealthy.   But that is different than governmentally mandated socialism.


Including traditional Mormon marriage?

If you want to get technical about tradition, when "mormonism" was started, the members did not practice plural marriage, so I guess One man one woman marriage would be "traditional" mormon marriage.   


Who is going to provide these incentives?  The federal government? Or will we leave this up to states?  And how does that jibe with the whole "free market" thang?
Consumers provide incentives for innovation.
I guess I should correct myself.  I guess I mean that the government should not increase the burden on a person/company just because it is innovative and productive.

Hmmm, "socialism" is actually a traditional value in my culture.  Or is only your culture the one we're protecting?

Socialism would be fine if good and honest leaders fairly distributed the wealth to all citizens, and the huge majority of citizens were good and honest and worked hard in spite of the socialist ceiling.
That is not the case in the US.  We need the market (The demands of consumers) to protect our interests, even if the system is not perfect.


That would require more government regulation, and since much of it flows across state lines and over the internet, probably more federal government regulation.

Yes it would.  But sometimes compromises must be made.   Pornography does far more harm than good, and because it does cross state lines, it falls into the limited scope of the federal government.

Quote
- Spend more time with your family and less time at work.

See, socialism supports this - capitalism...not so much.


In a capitalist society, most people can chose what they want to do.  While I think it is important for everyone to spend more time with their family, it is even more important that people have the right to choose.



42
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:56:19 AM »
I don't want to argue over the definition of traditional.  I gave you examples of the values which many people consider traditional, and are good for our society.

Of course you don't want to argue over it, because then you'd have to concede that there have been many types of traditional marriages throughout history, and most of them would make you appalled.  (Is there anything less traditional than an arranged marriage, for instance?)  But that's okay because in your "limited" government, you and this mysterious "many" would get to dictate what's "considered good for our society."

How about you decide what's good for you, and I decide what's good for me, and keep your nosy "traditional values" crap away from my marriage (and my porn).

Do you think that porn does more good than harm?

And by the way, I said limited federal government. 

43
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:52:38 AM »
So is this post an argument for political action or social action or both or something else...?

An argument for personal action.  That you should do what you think is best to defend the great values that are being destroyed by the 7 deadly sins that are so often openly glamorized in today's society.

44
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:50:15 AM »
Hey, dude, you can also promote kindness, charity, love by...wait for it...being kind, charitable, and loving to those around us.

Shockingly, your precious free market tends to promote callousness and disregard for the well-being of your fellow man. HTFH.

Selling a product that people want and need is callous?
Creating more wealth than you take shows a disregard for the well-being of my fellow man?

Free markets have waste and harmful biproducts, but free markets based on good principles are usually good for everyone.  

Again, bad people can abuse any good thing and do harm.

How do you reconcile free market and stopping the flow of porn?  What about narcotics?  Low-cost Prescription drugs?  Sweatshop  toys from China?  Guns?

I agree that libertarian free market ideals often conflict with moral ideals.   I said that we should encourage incentives and innovation.  I did not mean to imply that no regulations should exist.    Although some libertarian arguments are very interesting.    Black markets often do more harm than open markets.

45
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:46:27 AM »
It's an age old Christian tradition to let the pontiff @#!* your wife on your wedding night.  Still want to protect traditional marriage?

Yet another strawman argument.  You want to focus attention on a horrible thing and link it to traditional marriage, but that does not mean that traditional families are not good for society.

So who gets to define traditional?  Because that was, in fact, tradition.

I don't want to argue over the definition of traditional.  I gave you examples of the values which many people consider traditional, and are good for our society.

46
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:44:57 AM »
Can we go back to stoning people to death and wearing two different kinds of fabric at the same time as being an abomination in the eyes of god. Ah the good old days when women were property and men got goats for marrying one of your daughters.

I believe this is what is called a strawman argument, only it is disguised as a witty sarcastic reply.

Yea I learned how to do it from Rush Limbah, rail against drugs and drug abusers while you send your undocumented housekeeper out to fill fake prescriptions for drugs to support your habit. Or Congressmen Mark Foley advocating legislation to protect minors from sexual exploitation by adults while asking under age page boys to email him naked pictures of themselves. Or the Reverend Ted Haggert, pastor of a 14,000 member church, leader in the anti-gay marriage campaign, president of the evangelical congress and advisor to President Bush on “family values” all the while carrying on a three year meth fueled sexual relationship with a male prostitute. I’ve been a republican for all my life, I’ve gotten pretty dame good at the party line of telling other people and judging them on what is moral and what they should do while ignoring all of that if it severs my personal interest.

So is there something on my list that you have a problem with?

Yes these:
- Stop the assault on religion. (see above who's asalting who)
- Protect traditional marriage. (see above example of one of the crusaders of that movement)
- Stop the endless flow of easily accessible pornography. (what are you kidding me, that's what the internet was invented for)
- Spend more time with your family and less time at work. (work is where pople get to molset kids while priasing family vaules)


Whether you believe in God or not, religion is an effective way to promote virtues such as kindness, charity, love, temperance, patience, obedience, and selflessness.  Just because some religious people do more harm than good does not mean that religion is not important to society.


Its alo really good at starting wars, crusades, adn as a reason for terrorism. I'm all for the angrey vegfull god of the old testiment, but you can't deny thst sll three of the great religions have done a hell of  good jobs of kiiling  large mount of humanity (more than in any of the recent wars combined) in the name of the lord since those relgions got strted. I think I be hard pressed to say the good works are not overshadowded by 1000s of years of slautering the other religions pople.


Those horrible things were caused by pride, evil, selfishness, and a lack of understanding.  Religion was a convenient excuse to go to war in most of the classic examples.   Most religions, at their basic levels, teach members to be peaceful

47
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:41:18 AM »
Hey, dude, you can also promote kindness, charity, love by...wait for it...being kind, charitable, and loving to those around us.

Shockingly, your precious free market tends to promote callousness and disregard for the well-being of your fellow man. HTFH.

Selling a product that people want and need is callous?
Creating more wealth than you take shows a disregard for the well-being of my fellow man?

Free markets have waste and harmful biproducts, but free markets based on good principles are usually good for everyone.  

Again, bad people can abuse any good thing and do harm.

48
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:36:06 AM »
It's an age old Christian tradition to let the pontiff @#!* your wife on your wedding night.  Still want to protect traditional marriage?

Yet another strawman argument.  You want to focus attention on a horrible thing and link it to traditional marriage, but that does not mean that traditional families are not good for society.

49
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:33:27 AM »
Can we go back to stoning people to death and wearing two different kinds of fabric at the same time as being an abomination in the eyes of god. Ah the good old days when women were property and men got goats for marrying one of your daughters.

I believe this is what is called a strawman argument, only it is disguised as a witty sarcastic reply.

Yea I learned how to do it from Rush Limbah, rail against drugs and drug abusers while you send your undocumented housekeeper out to fill fake prescriptions for drugs to support your habit. Or Congressmen Mark Foley advocating legislation to protect minors from sexual exploitation by adults while asking under age page boys to email him naked pictures of themselves. Or the Reverend Ted Haggert, pastor of a 14,000 member church, leader in the anti-gay marriage campaign, president of the evangelical congress and advisor to President Bush on “family values” all the while carrying on a three year meth fueled sexual relationship with a male prostitute. I’ve been a republican for all my life, I’ve gotten pretty dame good at the party line of telling other people and judging them on what is moral and what they should do while ignoring all of that if it severs my personal interest.

So is there something on my list that you have a problem with?

Yes these:
- Stop the assault on religion. (see above who's asalting who)
- Protect traditional marriage. (see above example of one of the crusaders of that movement)
- Stop the endless flow of easily accessible pornography. (what are you kidding me, that's what the internet was invented for)
- Spend more time with your family and less time at work. (work is where pople get to molset kids while priasing family vaules)


Whether you believe in God or not, religion is an effective way to promote virtues such as kindness, charity, love, temperance, patience, obedience, and selflessness.  Just because some religious people do more harm than good does not mean that religion is not important to society.

Traditional marriage needs to be protected.  I did not imply that homosexual marriage should not be allowed. (That is a different topic)  Divorce rates are high, single parents are abundant, and the family is breaking down.  Families do a lot of good.  

Porn hurts a lot of people.  It is easy and pleasurable, but it creates a false version of sex and beauty that harm personal relationships.



50
General Off-Topic Board / Re: We must return to traditional values.
« on: March 24, 2009, 12:25:03 AM »
What items on my list do you support?  What items don't you support?
Call them whatever you want.  Call them "TheCause's crazy slogans" if you wish.

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