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Messages - GodspeedMUFC

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31
Where should I go next fall? / Re: UVa ($) v. GULC- seriously
« on: April 29, 2008, 07:20:57 PM »
I have a friend who grew up in NYC attended UG in Boston and then went for PhD at Uva. She says C'ville kind of sucks but ultimately there are some bars and restaurants as well as a huge students population. You should visit it might not be as bad as you think.

But consider it another way every single person I have ever met who attended GU in any capacity is a huge huge huge huge huge huge huge dbag. No offence anyone here who attends or has attended GU... the laws of nature would seem to indicate that there must exist some decent human being who has attended GU but of the dozens of alumni I have known.... all huge dbags. Is that what you want for yourself?


Disclaimer: I would never ever use the term "dbag" in real life, but it seems oddly appropriete in this context.

32
Where should I go next fall? / Re: PT vs. FT?
« on: April 29, 2008, 07:10:23 PM »
Matthies

Nice cat lol.

33
Where should I go next fall? / Re: PT vs. FT?
« on: April 29, 2008, 07:08:45 PM »
Decidor-


I went to BC! I am looking at many of these schools for full time and have picked up some things about there PT programs on the way.

Brooklyn- Brooklyn has two programs which are technically part time, part time day and part time evening. I know about PT day but not much about PT evening. Brooklyn's PT day program is a good option in a lot of ways. From what I understand you take classes with all the same professors as students in the regular day program (though I think starting 2008F PT students will be in a section with only other PT students if someone knows otherwise please correct). You are eligible for all activities and clubs. You are eligible for housing this is of course a huge +. Most importantly if you are of good academic standing after first semester you can transfer to FT ( i think good academic standing is roughly a 2.6 but I am sure you can find exact number elsewhere).
The negatives here is that if you are attending BLS you are inserting yourself into a VERY competitive job market post graduation. In the NYC job market every little thing counts, so the problem of sequence raises its head... if you haven't taken torts in 1L (which you would not have if you went to BLS part time day) it will be tough to get a good summer internship after 1L if you don't get a good summer internship in summer of 1L it will be tougher to get good summer position after 2L if you don't have good summer position after 2L it will be that much more difficult to get a job after graduation. Now I am not talking in absolutes here, of course part time students CAN get good summer positions after 1L, 2L but it will just be that much harder.

NY Law I am assuming you mean New York Law School. Don't know anything about PT program. Had a friend who went there and absolutely hated it both while she attended and after graduation (she is no longer in law). Reality of NYLS is if you are top 3% you can have a shot at a good position in NYC basically because of location but outside of that sliver my impression is life is tough.

Cardozo- I was not under the impression that they have a PT program, though they may well. In general its a very good school top 10% is well placed for BigLaw and outside of that you still have pretty decent prospects if you are top 50%. Has a reputation for being a bit more academically oriented whereas BLS has a reputation for being more practical.

Fordham- Fantastic school, fantastic alumni network, very good evening program (though you are going to do much better for yourself if you eventually transfer into FT). Not sure if you can get housing in evening program but the law school has fantastic housing.

St. John's- Don't know much about evening program but St. John's has a reputation that punches above its ranking in NYC. Strong alumni connections (look at amount of alumni at Simpson Thacher for example).

American- Don't know anything about PT program but very good reputation for full time. One of my bestfriends went there and did very well for himself. He was on Law review and in top 10% of class. Got multiple offers with BigLaw in NYC, DC, and Boston.

other schools I know nothing about except that Pepperdine is very religious and conservative (I think Ken Starr is their dean).

Keep track of my posts and look at my recent one as I am in the process of compiling a comparative list of placement in top NYC firms between St. John's, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, and now Cardozo.

34
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Soooo Confused...
« on: April 29, 2008, 06:45:28 PM »
Accept Duquesne's offer and remain on the waiting list at Widener. Reality is a very small percentage of students make it off the waiting list and if they do it tends to be at really awkward times ie when you are at orientation for the school you have decided to attend. That having been said why not keep your options open.

Don't know much about either school but I have heard two things about Duquesne 1) they have a good alumni network if you want to practise in western PA and 2) Bring your rosary because it is ubber Catholic (not that there is anything wrong with that).
The one thing I know about Widener is that they grade on a C curve and that really really deeply sucks for you if you are a student there. Granted prospective employers should look at your percentile rank and not your GPA but it would be naive to think that having a very low GPA because of a tough grading curve isn't going to negatively impact your job opportunities after graduation.

Ultimately I don't think either school is really better so I would just stay on the waiting list at Widener and forget about it,  while mentally preparing to attend Duquesne in the Fall.

Hope this helped.

35
Where should I go next fall? / Re: PT vs. FT?
« on: April 29, 2008, 06:31:22 PM »
Decidor-

If I am reading you correctly you are referencing part time programs not part time schools correct? I know a bit about part time programs, but nothing about part time schools so I will continue response assuming you are referencing part time programs.

Part time programs vary greatly in cost, difficulty, and eventual job prospects. So a lot of this would be dependent on what programs you would be interested in. But here are some rough general pros and cons

pro

less classes each semester so you have a (marginal) chance to achieve a higher GPA.
Ability to keep job makes expenses far easier to deal with.
I have heard that in general part time students enjoy a somewhat more collegial relationship with their classmates. (this is of course anecdotal)
In many programs if you are in good standing at end of 1L (sometimes first semester) you can transfer into FT.

cons

Depending on program your faculty may be second rate (professors that wouldn't be hired to teach in the day program)
Depending on the program you are not likely to be allowed to participate in organizations such as moot court and law review. (this varies by program of course and some part time programs have their own law review etc...)
You may not be eligible for  study abroad or taking classes at your institution outside of the law school.
There will likely be less opportunities to have study groups with your classmates.
It is almost certain that the law school as an administration will devote less time and energy to you.
If you are going to be applying for jobs in a competitive environment you will constantly be explaining why you were PT instead of FT to potential employers.
If you are in ultra competitive environment such as NYC, DC, Boston etc... your whole sequence could be messed up. You may be unable to get internships/jobs in summer after 1L because for example you may not have yet taken Torts. This could eventually cause issues when you apply for summer associate positions after 2L.
Generally speaking going part time is over the long haul more expensive.
Far more difficult to get scholarships and fellowships.

I don't claim to be an expert in this (please correct any factual errors), but these are the impressions I have about the differences between programs but then again it really varies like for example I know that Fordham's evening division is considered a pretty good program as is I believe Brooklyn's part time day program.

Your GPA is pretty solid (though I don't know where you did UG) and your LSATs are not poor. I would suggest that you retake your LSATs because even if you were only to raise your score by four points, making it a 162 that would significantly change your options.

36
senor staff attorney... lol.

37
Hey so I don't claim that this is in anyway telling or even necessarily accurate but I just did a random sampling of placement from Brooklyn, St. John's, and Seton Hall at law firms with NYC offices listed by BBLP. I choose 10 firms randomly and here are the results (if I added it up correctly which I may not have since my teacher appears to have a suspicion that I am not listening to her lecture). Again not sure this is really helpful but here it is... I will post more if I get around to continuing this (if anyone would like to split up going through the firms that would be fantastic, willing to add more schools for comparison). I would look at the partners and associates as the other designations can sometimes be misleading.

St. Johnís

23 partners 39 associates 9 counsel 3 of counsel 2 staff attorneys 2 special counsel 1 senor staff attorney.


Kirkland and Ellis -1 partner 3 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Partner 2 counsel 1 staff attorney
Pillsbury-  2 partner
Simpson Thatcher- 7 partners, 16 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel, 1 not admitted.
Bingham- 1 partner, 4 associates, 1 counsel
Sullivan Cromwell- 1 partner, 3 associates, 1 special counsel
WilmerHale- 1 partner, 1 associate, 1 special counsel
King & Spalding- 3 partners, 3 associates, 1 staff attorney
Paul Weiss- 3 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewey LeBoeuf- 3 partners, 5 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel

 

Seton Hall

7 partners, 19 associates 3 counsel 1 senior staff attorney



Kirkland and Ellis- 2 partners and 4 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Associate
Pillsbury- 1 Partner 1 associate
Simpson Thatcher- 2 partners, 3 associates.
Bingham- 1 Associate
Sullivan Cromwell- 0
WilmerHale- 2 counsels
King & Spaliding- 2 Partners, 1 associate, 1 counsel
Paul, Weiss- 1 associate, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewey LeBoeuf- 7 associates




Brooklyn

22 partners, 63 associates 10 counsel 3 staff attorneys 1 special counsel 1 senior staff attorney


Kirkland and Ellis -5 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Partner 3 associates 3 counsel
Pillsbury- 4 partners, 5 associates, 1 counsel
Simpson, Thatcher- 2 partners, 1 counsel, 11 associates, 2 not admitted
Bingham- 3 partners, 3 associates, 1 counsel
Sullivan Cromwell- 3 partners, 12 associates, 1 special counsel
WilmerHale- 3 partners, 3 associates, 3 staff attorneys
King & Spaliding- 2 associates
Paul, Weiss- 1 Partner, 8 associates, 2 counsel, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewy LeBoeuf Ė 5 partners, 10 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel


38
Hey so I don't claim that this is in anyway telling or even necessarily accurate but I just did a random sampling of placement from Brooklyn, St. John's, and Seton Hall at Law Firms with NYC offices listed by BBLP. I choose 10 firms randomly and here are the results (if I added it up correctly which I may not have since my teacher appears to have a suspicion that I am not listening to her lecture). Again not sure this is really helpful but here it is... I will post more if I get around to continuing this. I would look at the partners and associates as the other designations can sometimes be misleading.

St. Johnís

23 partners 39 associates 9 counsel 3 of counsel 2 staff attorneys 2 special counsel 1 senor staff attorney.


Kirkland and Ellis -1 partner 3 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Partner 2 counsel 1 staff attorney
Pillsbury-  2 partner
Simpson Thatcher- 7 partners, 16 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel, 1 not admitted.
Bingham- 1 partner, 4 associates, 1 counsel
Sullivan Cromwell- 1 partner, 3 associates, 1 special counsel
WilmerHale- 1 partner, 1 associate, 1 special counsel
King & Spalding- 3 partners, 3 associates, 1 staff attorney
Paul Weiss- 3 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewey LeBoeuf- 3 partners, 5 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel

 

Seton Hall

7 partners, 19 associates 3 counsel 1 senior staff attorney



Kirkland and Ellis- 2 partners and 4 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Associate
Pillsbury- 1 Partner 1 associate
Simpson Thatcher- 2 partners, 3 associates.
Bingham- 1 Associate
Sullivan Cromwell- 0
WilmerHale- 2 counsels
King & Spaliding- 2 Partners, 1 associate, 1 counsel
Paul, Weiss- 1 associate, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewey LeBoeuf- 7 associates




Brooklyn

22 partners, 63 associates 10 counsel 3 staff attorneys 1 special counsel 1 senior staff attorney


Kirkland and Ellis -5 associates
Akin Gump- 1 Partner 3 associates 3 counsel
Pillsbury- 4 partners, 5 associates, 1 counsel
Simpson, Thatcher- 2 partners, 1 counsel, 11 associates, 2 not admitted
Bingham- 3 partners, 3 associates, 1 counsel
Sullivan Cromwell- 3 partners, 12 associates, 1 special counsel
WilmerHale- 3 partners, 3 associates, 3 staff attorneys
King & Spaliding- 2 associates
Paul, Weiss- 1 Partner, 8 associates, 2 counsel, 1 senior staff attorney
Dewy LeBoeuf Ė 5 partners, 10 associates, 1 of counsel, 2 counsel



39
Hi

I had very similar results to you (op) in this application cycle. I am having a tough time choosing as well. My feeling is that Seton Hall while strong in NJ is somewhat weak in NYC. I am not 100% sure why St. John's is 25 positions lower than Seton Hall and Brooklyn (if anyone knows why I would love to hear from you) but it seems like St. John's graduates have a far better shot at an NYC firm
(take a look at the amount of St. John's grads at Simpson Thacher for example) compared with SHU (perhaps this explains why I got so much more money from SHU as compared to St. John's). I guess my advice would be to check out all the schools and see which one feels like more of a fit. Beyond that perhaps you have to ask yourself realistically how well you believe you will do in Law school, if you really think you will be top 10% go to Brooklyn or St. John's if not I would take Seton Hall and their money and get a nice decent job at a NJ firm.   

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