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Messages - philosophia

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Transferring / Re: Intra-Regional Transfer
« on: June 11, 2008, 08:39:53 PM »
Yeah, I am going to GSU and am in-state, so no big budget buster there. My scholarship is only contingent on remaining in good standing each year- there's no gpa or rank cutoff from what the Dir of Admissions told me. (It's a fellowship award from an outside institution given to students at GSU that have strong merit, need, and fit a certain "profile", i.e. non-traditional types, if that makes any difference.)

I really am not too worried about the debt load from GSU (even considering my debt from undergrad).  What worries me is that I also went to GSU for undergrad.  Most people gawk at that, but my personal situation has dictated that I stay put for at least another year (I have an infant).  I considered applying to UGA and Emory (although I probably wouldn't have gotten in ELS), but have an uncle who went to GSU Law and does well for himself in private practice, so I thought "what the hell?" Plus, it is conveniently located for federal courts, capital work, many different sized firms, etc.

I'm going to see how it goes this fall.  Worst case scenario, I end up making $40-50K in public interest... That's better than what my philosophy degree will get me.  Plus, I am licensed in Real Estate and have some commercial RE experience, so we'll see.


Job Search / Re: 1L Summer job process
« on: June 11, 2008, 07:38:44 PM »
Right on. I definitely have things in perspective; I just tend to be really neurotic at times. I appreciate you sharing, though.  Before this summer, I really wanted to go into public interest and haven't ruled it out.  Somehow I have let some dimwits on this board scare me into thinking it's BIGLAW or bust.  I know that isn't true, of course, but I get caught up in the hype.  Plus, like most people going into LS, I believe I will be in that small percentage of super-geniuses that lands an awesome job... hey, one can dream, you know!!!

Actually, if you care to know, yesterday I finally had to let some frustration out on this board and try to refocus myself  (and hopefully a few others) re: school prestige vs. scholarship $$ and all the elitist comments that take place in some of the dicussions here.  Some people are so hell bent on BIGLAW and big salaries that they can't see past their own aszes.  Hope I can keep my perspective through this next year.

I think we'd all agree that the moral of this whole thread is:

Weigh your options and consider the market/debt/prestige ratio when deciding where to go.  If you want to stay in Cleveland, or MidWest I guess, then maybe Case is a better choice.  Otherwise, though, save your purse and opt for the $$!

so i haven't read all these posts, but I want to put my 2 cents in

going to a higher ranked school over money is, in my opinion, ONLY worth it if the higher ranked school is in the top 30. if you are choosing between a school ranked 75 and a school ranked, say, 50 and the 75 one gave you money i would say take the $$. schools are done by ranges and outside of the top 25 or so the odds of you getting "big law" are quite low unless you place high in the class.  even in a top 25 you still need to do top 1/3 at least.  its only once you get to T14 that you can relax a little.  Consequently, I really do believe you are screwing yourself if you choose a T2 with money over a tier one.  b/c this is your JOB. sure you will have debt, but you will have much much more opportunity. and yeah, its just a first job.  but its a pretty huge first job. you can start your first year with 160,000 in your pocket and prestige and the ability to do wonderful things.  not having that firm job (and wanting it- this doesn't go for public interest) means you will have to work ever so harder to achieve it.  this is your career. this is your life, money and education.  i'd say what job you get is pretty damn important..

Isn't "the cutoff" for T1 and T2 at like 50?  So, your logic doesn't add up anyway b/c you claim there is no difference in 50 or 75, but then claim one is screwing him/herself by choosing T2 even with $$.  But, assuming you didn't contradict yourself, I'd agree and say that anyone was a fool for passing up $160K.  The only problem is only a handful of people get those gigs even coming out of T1.  Anyway, half a year's salary in debt versus 60-75% of an annual salary in debt seems like better odds to me.  And, most 1 year BIGLAW associate positions hover around $125K or so I believe.  Then odds get even slimmer... 

Job Search / Re: 1L Summer job process
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:16:40 PM »
Thanks for the advice and encouraging words... sometimes this board amps my anxiety level!  :)

Georgia State / Re: Class of 2011
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:06:06 PM »
Anyone still reading this thread?

I wanted to comment on the housing situation: I was an undergrad in ATL and lived off campus all but the first year.  Definitely look into apartments in Little Five/East Atlanta area.  I now live in Midtown and pay a great rent for a two bedroom townhouse that is convenient TO EVERYTHING!!! If interested, PM me and I'll share.

Re: the assignment, I have no clue, but I would bet it has to do with briefing a case.  Seems that briefing is one of the key skills to learn in the beginning.  Who knows, though... could be to list your likes, dislikes, feelings, fears, dreams, etc!!!  I hear they are doing some studies on law students and depression around the nation.  Maybe we are the next specimen group.

Just to clarify, DC... My school isn't necessarily the top dog, as there are two other reasonably ranked (higher than mine) schools in my state and some very competitive schools in neighboring states.  But, you are right: everyone should consider ALL factors, not just which school gets ranked highest.

I totally agree with the last two posts.  And a big "Thanks" for sharing your daughter's success story. 

It is so frustrating to see that even on a board that should be littered with intellectuals, most people still get caught up in social hierarchies and the sayings of the elite.

Since I have joined this board, I have found myself slipping further into this oblivion.  I have asked questions about transferring to a better ranked school and I haven't even started yet!!! It can be demoralizing, I admit, but I almost feel fortunate that I haven't taken the other path.

, but I just can't help but think, "Who gives a sh!t what a bunch of liberal elitists think about my resume anyway?!?!"

Now, I'm prepared for the attacks that my comment is sure to evoke and I realize that I may not get some BIGLAW salary, but my debt load certainly won't dictate that I need one either.  I have a child, which makes the idea of accumulating debt even more scary, but I challenge anyone to tell me that having $100,000+ in loan debt isn't a HUGE heartbreaker even when you make 6 figures.

I have a scholarship to a regional school in a very large city that typically places its students very well.  It also boasts the highest bar passage rate in my state.  USNWR ranked it one of the best values in the nation, and I feel confident that even without a T1, Top 15 logo, I will be just fine, even in this economy. Making $60K-$80K with less than $40K in debt doesn't sound too bad to me.

By the way, we haven't even hit recession yet... so who knows how easy it will be to get a job in 3 even if you are lucky enough to be at a top school?

Here's to the rest of us!!!

I took some money at a T3 and gave up admission to a T2.  After a year at the T3, I did well and am desperately trying to transfer.  Some professors are very good, some are not.  Some classmates are very smart, some are not.  At times it doesn't feel like law school, but rather like the place third-rate wannabes might go to teach and learn.  Several classmates just skipped class and put no effort in at all, which I hear does not happen at better schools.  And most of all, JOB MARKET JOB MARKET JOB MARKET

Go to a better-tiered school, regardless of money.  I think money should only be a factor in deliberating between different schools of the same tier.

Re: bold type...

While this may be way off, it seems to me that when considering the job market, you would want the least amount of loan debt as possible, regardless of which school you choose.  I realize that a better tiered school will get recognition, but if you can't rank high enough, get on LR, etc, then I wonder how much the name will do for you in the way of paying back the debt?!?!

IMO, lower debt = safer bet.  Then again, I'm gong to a T2 on a scholarship, so maybe I'm biased.  ;)

Transferring / Re: Intra-Regional Transfer
« on: June 10, 2008, 01:51:45 PM »

Is it worth transferring to another school if it is in the same market where you currently study?

That really depends what schools we're talking about it. This scenario is pretty common, actually. For example, a student might transfer from a tier 2/3/4 in one state/city to a top 15 law school in the same state/city. In that case, it would clearly be worth it because of the difference in job prospects.

I haven't even entered 1L yet, but am considering transferring already... the whole "economy/Tier2 school/snowball's chance in hell of being able to pay off your loans" thing has really got me spooked.

Am I experiencing cold feet, or should I start planning for an escape from my "decent" school now?   :-\ :(

My guess is, the school you've chosen is an expensive school somewhere near several other, higher ranked law schools. It's normal to be nervous, but if your choice is a bad financial decision then maybe you should think twice about going in the fall. The reason I say this is because the odds of you transferring, especially to a higher ranked school are not good. For example, at my old tier 2, less than a handful of students were able to transfer to top 15 law schools. The situation is pretty much the same at most low ranked law schools.

Waiting a year or two to attend a school whose financial burden and realistic job prospects you are comfortable with doesn't cost a whole lot in the overall scheme of things. While you wait, try to get your LSAT score up with more prep, or a tutor if necessary. If that fails, look into attending a cheaper in-state, public law school in your home market or some other market. Research residency policies and establish residence for in-state tuition purposes before setting foot in law school.

Well, actually I have a full scholarship to my school, so, financially I feel that I should stay (it is renewable each year). On the other hand, it is like T70 (but was voted one of the best values in the USNWR) and there are two other schools near T25, not even T15, in my state. 

Now that I write all that, I feel like I should just stick it out and focus on grades, like hendrick recommends.  Should I end up in the top % of my class by some stroke of luck, then maybe I will rethink my plight.

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