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Messages - philosophia

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Just to clarify, DC... My school isn't necessarily the top dog, as there are two other reasonably ranked (higher than mine) schools in my state and some very competitive schools in neighboring states.  But, you are right: everyone should consider ALL factors, not just which school gets ranked highest.

I totally agree with the last two posts.  And a big "Thanks" for sharing your daughter's success story. 

It is so frustrating to see that even on a board that should be littered with intellectuals, most people still get caught up in social hierarchies and the sayings of the elite.

Since I have joined this board, I have found myself slipping further into this oblivion.  I have asked questions about transferring to a better ranked school and I haven't even started yet!!! It can be demoralizing, I admit, but I almost feel fortunate that I haven't taken the other path.

, but I just can't help but think, "Who gives a sh!t what a bunch of liberal elitists think about my resume anyway?!?!"

Now, I'm prepared for the attacks that my comment is sure to evoke and I realize that I may not get some BIGLAW salary, but my debt load certainly won't dictate that I need one either.  I have a child, which makes the idea of accumulating debt even more scary, but I challenge anyone to tell me that having $100,000+ in loan debt isn't a HUGE heartbreaker even when you make 6 figures.

I have a scholarship to a regional school in a very large city that typically places its students very well.  It also boasts the highest bar passage rate in my state.  USNWR ranked it one of the best values in the nation, and I feel confident that even without a T1, Top 15 logo, I will be just fine, even in this economy. Making $60K-$80K with less than $40K in debt doesn't sound too bad to me.

By the way, we haven't even hit recession yet... so who knows how easy it will be to get a job in 3 even if you are lucky enough to be at a top school?

Here's to the rest of us!!!

I took some money at a T3 and gave up admission to a T2.  After a year at the T3, I did well and am desperately trying to transfer.  Some professors are very good, some are not.  Some classmates are very smart, some are not.  At times it doesn't feel like law school, but rather like the place third-rate wannabes might go to teach and learn.  Several classmates just skipped class and put no effort in at all, which I hear does not happen at better schools.  And most of all, JOB MARKET JOB MARKET JOB MARKET

Go to a better-tiered school, regardless of money.  I think money should only be a factor in deliberating between different schools of the same tier.

Re: bold type...

While this may be way off, it seems to me that when considering the job market, you would want the least amount of loan debt as possible, regardless of which school you choose.  I realize that a better tiered school will get recognition, but if you can't rank high enough, get on LR, etc, then I wonder how much the name will do for you in the way of paying back the debt?!?!

IMO, lower debt = safer bet.  Then again, I'm gong to a T2 on a scholarship, so maybe I'm biased.  ;)

Transferring / Re: Intra-Regional Transfer
« on: June 10, 2008, 12:51:45 PM »

Is it worth transferring to another school if it is in the same market where you currently study?

That really depends what schools we're talking about it. This scenario is pretty common, actually. For example, a student might transfer from a tier 2/3/4 in one state/city to a top 15 law school in the same state/city. In that case, it would clearly be worth it because of the difference in job prospects.

I haven't even entered 1L yet, but am considering transferring already... the whole "economy/Tier2 school/snowball's chance in hell of being able to pay off your loans" thing has really got me spooked.

Am I experiencing cold feet, or should I start planning for an escape from my "decent" school now?   :-\ :(

My guess is, the school you've chosen is an expensive school somewhere near several other, higher ranked law schools. It's normal to be nervous, but if your choice is a bad financial decision then maybe you should think twice about going in the fall. The reason I say this is because the odds of you transferring, especially to a higher ranked school are not good. For example, at my old tier 2, less than a handful of students were able to transfer to top 15 law schools. The situation is pretty much the same at most low ranked law schools.

Waiting a year or two to attend a school whose financial burden and realistic job prospects you are comfortable with doesn't cost a whole lot in the overall scheme of things. While you wait, try to get your LSAT score up with more prep, or a tutor if necessary. If that fails, look into attending a cheaper in-state, public law school in your home market or some other market. Research residency policies and establish residence for in-state tuition purposes before setting foot in law school.

Well, actually I have a full scholarship to my school, so, financially I feel that I should stay (it is renewable each year). On the other hand, it is like T70 (but was voted one of the best values in the USNWR) and there are two other schools near T25, not even T15, in my state. 

Now that I write all that, I feel like I should just stick it out and focus on grades, like hendrick recommends.  Should I end up in the top % of my class by some stroke of luck, then maybe I will rethink my plight.

Transferring / Intra-Regional Transfer
« on: June 09, 2008, 06:42:02 PM »
Is it worth transferring to another school if it is in the same market where you currently study?

I haven't even entered 1L yet, but am considering transferring already... the whole "economy/Tier2 school/snowball's chance in hell of being able to pay off your loans" thing has really got me spooked.

Am I experiencing cold feet, or should I start planning for an escape from my "decent" school now?   :-\ :(

Current Law Students / Re: AspenLaw Study desk
« on: June 08, 2008, 04:19:34 PM »
I know some people dont like it and I forget how much it costs but I think it was somewhere between $20 and $40... you can make flash cards, notes, outlines etc. on Aspen Study Desk... usually they have monthly promotions too where you can download free copies of E&Es, premade flashcards etc. also found it easy to organize notes. First semester I relied heavily on word and it was a lot more difficult when it came time to organize all my papers for outlining etc. Study Deak makes outlines for you if you want but I decided not to do that because I find making them myself a good way of reviewing. Regardless, it was still easier using that application... I would really recommend checking it out sometime... sometimes they even have promotions where the program is free if you buy an e-book. 

Otherwise, I am sure there is a way you could set up word to do it for you

I actually don't find note cards too helpful for the way I learn but it is really easy for those in particular

I would stay away from any recording devices. Most schools require approval from the professor and sometimes even the dean and most professors, especially the older ones, say no. Besides, a recording won't help you much. There is a lot of talk that goes on in class that will never be on a final. The key point is just to get the main ideas and their nuances down, and to know how and when to apply them. Passing comments or even random remarks of interest are not important and indeed would hurt you if you had them because there would be more things to sort through which will waste your time studying. For example, you will likely talk about the Quia Emptores in property class and the history of estates back during the feudal period etc. but I highly doubt any professor would test on it. It would be something nice to "spruce up" your answer with a passing reference but not an essential part. We spent about a whole class on that stuff and at most it was one short sentence or two on the exam.  So, I would just stay clear of recording or any other devices that record everything that is said in class

Enough said... I was worried about regulations on recording, so if it seems that it will be a hassle (or worse, a waste of money) then I think I will pass.  I am going to try the StudyDesk, though.  It is $40 and I could find an easier way to justify that "waste" if I find it's not worth it.  The SmartPen is upwards of like $200!

Current Law Students / Re: Pulse SmartPen
« on: June 08, 2008, 04:13:35 PM »
I will, should I get it.  i thought I had stumbled on to something ingenious, but it looks as though most people (if not almost ALL) have no clue or think it's a waste of time.  Thanks for your thoughts, though.  It confirmed some of my fears re: time wasting and regulations.

Current Law Students / Re: Summer Prep
« on: June 08, 2008, 10:12:00 AM »
I have been reading a book recommended by my school, which is okay: Law School Without Fear (by the Shapos (first names escape me now).  It can be boring and VERY basic sometimes, but it has helped to calm my nerves and I think I will actually use some of the advice.  Also, I read Law School Confidential and it has some good suggestions for studying, briefing, etc.

I tried to do some CALI lessons online, but there's really no point, since I have no idea what they are talking about yet!!! But, as far as actual substantive reading on subjects, I tend to think others, like jeffislouie, have the right idea.  It seems counterproductive.

BUT- I got an AP Prep book on economics and it is good stuff.  It is kind of blah, but for a philosophy major, like me, it helps put a different spin on things.  Also, I hear that economics is a good foundation to have for Torts, and that since economic issues underlie a lot of policy, it helps to be fresh with it.

Just a note- I spend a lot of time at the pool swimming, because much of the advice I've gotten suggests starting an exercise regime if you do not already have one!!!  :)

That book (Law school without fear) is by far the worst thing I've ever read.  My law school made it a requirement.  It stinks.  Poorly written, it doesn't tell you much of anything while claiming to be this fantastic tool.  It's crap.  Written by two lawyers (law profs? not sure anymore) with an inflated sense of self.  I hate that book.
Starting an excercise routine is an excellent idea.  Develop that habit now or you'll get rounder.  Or skinnier.

I didn't think it was THAT BAD, but I did skip a lot of it. I would be pissed if I had spent more than $6 for it, though.

I wouldn't mind the skinnier of the two, myself...

Current Law Students / Re: Pulse SmartPen
« on: June 08, 2008, 10:01:41 AM »
Maybe a link would help!?!?!?

Current Law Students / Re: AspenLaw Study desk
« on: June 08, 2008, 10:00:04 AM »
The demo looks interesting to me.  I think that as a 0L it could be helpful, especially since I don't have a LS "style" yet.  I looked at the Outliner 4.0 from and it costs more and doesn't offer the same integration-type functions, which look cool for exam prep.  No one has responded to my post about the SmartPen, which looks like it could give both of these a run for the money even though it is more expensive then either.

Check it out at:

I'd like to see what others think.  I'm worried that if I purchase it, then i will end up with a bunch of profs who don't allow recording devices...

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