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Messages - philosophia

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Current Law Students / Re: Here's the dealio
« on: July 07, 2008, 06:51:04 PM »

Well that's telling, now isn't it?!?!

Current Law Students / Re: Here's the dealio
« on: July 07, 2008, 06:35:56 PM »
OP- If you would oblige,

1) What # are you of your list?

2) What year are you, or have you graduated?

3) If you have graduated, what's your job/debt/despair scenario looking like?

No worries PaleForce, I myself am still wasting precious time posting about this idiocy!!! lol

It is difficult to let go of the idea of becoming a member of this profession because it has essentially been my goal for at least five years.  I refer to my previous example: it is similar to the religious person having difficulty coming to terms with the reality of a godless world.  They still want to believe but the evidence shows no reason for belief.  This is where I am at. 

The reason why I believe science is different from the law (hence more interesting) is because it deals with fundemental concepts of existence, while law deals with arbitrary ideas, fleeting moments within fleeting nations.  Therefore the grunt work of science would be for some greater purpose (at least a greater purpose than law).  A greater purpose in the sense that I believe it is more important to understand the universe than understand one nations arbitrary rules of legality.

I suppose, really, I do simply have to make a choice.  That is the only realistic conclusion.   

It seems that you have made the choice... Further, if this is the type of view you have re: law school and the practice of law, do us all a favor and get off this site.  More importantly, if you are having such a hard time deciding whether to go or not based on these beliefs, then your analytic skills are sub-par and you probably wouldn't do well at your T2/T3/T4 or whatever you said you were considering anyway!!!

By the way, why is anyone else wasting time with such immaturity?!?!?!  Please tell me we have better things to do than argue over accreditation standards, matriculation rates, and penis size of med schools and law schools....

Oh, wait, we are wanna-be lawyers aren't we?!?!   ;)

I am in the EXTREME minority, and will be undoubtedly flamed up and down this board, but I turned down a T-14 spot for a T3  full ride. However, I had some unique factors in that I am a bit older, had a wife that could not easily move and I would be fine ending up in the small state that my school is in. Also, my school has a strong specialty program that I was also very interested in. Now that 1-L is over, I am at the very top of my class and am beginning to start my job search. I found the single largest factor in doing well on 1-L exams was writing ability. The best writers in my class are all at the top of the class. It may not be fair, but when a prof sits down and starts reading a well-written exam, there is a strong bias toward that student - small mistakes are overlooked and positive assumptions made. There is also a very strong correlation at my school between LSAT and class rank. I don't know if this is common at other schools, but it is a clear delineating line here.
It will be interesting to see how my job prospects shake out, but I am not overly concerned. I have little debt and will have a lot of flexibility as a result. I am very happy with my choice and urge everyone to take into account all the various factors that should go into a serious decision such as school choice.
For many students, "take the top ranked" is the answer, but that is largely a function of the relatively homogenous pool of this forum. If you are young, dead-set on BigLaw with few obligations and willingness to follow the money wherever it may lead, that advice is often solid. But for those of us who don't fit the mold, the decision is more nuanced.

Thanks for your story.  It seems to me that you have hit the nail on the head re: the types of people on this board, and even with regard to how you chose your school. I think that for many non-traditional students (myself included) the idea of a T14 and BIGLAW isn't all that glamorous.  This is especially true if you have a spouse and/or children. Sometimes, people honestly just want to be lawyers no matter the path to getting there.

On another note, I hope that you are right when it comes to the correlation b/t writing, LSAT scores, and being at the top of the class. Like most people here (even though I am not aiming for BIGLAW and am not at a T14), I would still like to be at the top of my class.  I guess I can post back here next summer and let you know how that all panned out for me!!! hahaha

I just want to shout out to all the MILS and DILS out there, too.  It takes courage to take on law school and be a parent all at the same time!  ;) lol

Transferring / Re: Intra-Regional Transfer
« on: June 11, 2008, 07:39:53 PM »
Yeah, I am going to GSU and am in-state, so no big budget buster there. My scholarship is only contingent on remaining in good standing each year- there's no gpa or rank cutoff from what the Dir of Admissions told me. (It's a fellowship award from an outside institution given to students at GSU that have strong merit, need, and fit a certain "profile", i.e. non-traditional types, if that makes any difference.)

I really am not too worried about the debt load from GSU (even considering my debt from undergrad).  What worries me is that I also went to GSU for undergrad.  Most people gawk at that, but my personal situation has dictated that I stay put for at least another year (I have an infant).  I considered applying to UGA and Emory (although I probably wouldn't have gotten in ELS), but have an uncle who went to GSU Law and does well for himself in private practice, so I thought "what the hell?" Plus, it is conveniently located for federal courts, capital work, many different sized firms, etc.

I'm going to see how it goes this fall.  Worst case scenario, I end up making $40-50K in public interest... That's better than what my philosophy degree will get me.  Plus, I am licensed in Real Estate and have some commercial RE experience, so we'll see.


Job Search / Re: 1L Summer job process
« on: June 11, 2008, 06:38:44 PM »
Right on. I definitely have things in perspective; I just tend to be really neurotic at times. I appreciate you sharing, though.  Before this summer, I really wanted to go into public interest and haven't ruled it out.  Somehow I have let some dimwits on this board scare me into thinking it's BIGLAW or bust.  I know that isn't true, of course, but I get caught up in the hype.  Plus, like most people going into LS, I believe I will be in that small percentage of super-geniuses that lands an awesome job... hey, one can dream, you know!!!

Actually, if you care to know, yesterday I finally had to let some frustration out on this board and try to refocus myself  (and hopefully a few others) re: school prestige vs. scholarship $$ and all the elitist comments that take place in some of the dicussions here.  Some people are so hell bent on BIGLAW and big salaries that they can't see past their own aszes.  Hope I can keep my perspective through this next year.

I think we'd all agree that the moral of this whole thread is:

Weigh your options and consider the market/debt/prestige ratio when deciding where to go.  If you want to stay in Cleveland, or MidWest I guess, then maybe Case is a better choice.  Otherwise, though, save your purse and opt for the $$!

so i haven't read all these posts, but I want to put my 2 cents in

going to a higher ranked school over money is, in my opinion, ONLY worth it if the higher ranked school is in the top 30. if you are choosing between a school ranked 75 and a school ranked, say, 50 and the 75 one gave you money i would say take the $$. schools are done by ranges and outside of the top 25 or so the odds of you getting "big law" are quite low unless you place high in the class.  even in a top 25 you still need to do top 1/3 at least.  its only once you get to T14 that you can relax a little.  Consequently, I really do believe you are screwing yourself if you choose a T2 with money over a tier one.  b/c this is your JOB. sure you will have debt, but you will have much much more opportunity. and yeah, its just a first job.  but its a pretty huge first job. you can start your first year with 160,000 in your pocket and prestige and the ability to do wonderful things.  not having that firm job (and wanting it- this doesn't go for public interest) means you will have to work ever so harder to achieve it.  this is your career. this is your life, money and education.  i'd say what job you get is pretty damn important..

Isn't "the cutoff" for T1 and T2 at like 50?  So, your logic doesn't add up anyway b/c you claim there is no difference in 50 or 75, but then claim one is screwing him/herself by choosing T2 even with $$.  But, assuming you didn't contradict yourself, I'd agree and say that anyone was a fool for passing up $160K.  The only problem is only a handful of people get those gigs even coming out of T1.  Anyway, half a year's salary in debt versus 60-75% of an annual salary in debt seems like better odds to me.  And, most 1 year BIGLAW associate positions hover around $125K or so I believe.  Then odds get even slimmer... 

Job Search / Re: 1L Summer job process
« on: June 10, 2008, 08:16:40 PM »
Thanks for the advice and encouraging words... sometimes this board amps my anxiety level!  :)

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