Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - OkinawanLawyer

Pages: [1] 2
1
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 02:55:31 PM »

so then, as a help, and to a person that is not in classes yet, position myself for top 5%.  what is it that i need to do?  studying is a given!  but are groups better or worse?  are they like girls, you have to run through a few to find the one that a snug fit?   and even if you say, well you are a lost cause since you are going to cooley, then give me the tools i will need to be there so i can transfer?!     hows that.  im just trying to steer the comments from ragging and ridiculing to assistance.   (and telling me to kill myself or quit is not acceptable!)



Help for you:
1. Can you go to another school this fall?
2. Can you wait, retake lsat, and reapply - and then go to another school next year?
3. Top 5% as a transfer plan - people learn differently so figure out how you learn and teach yourself.  Practice exams are important during your first year, they will help you properly solve the problems.  Figure out how to synthesize the information, that may sound abstract, but you can reduce cases, arguments, policies, and law to their "gist."  And that will help you.  I am graduating in a few weeks, and I still see a couple of my peers taking dictation in class, and that is a huge waste of time. 
4. Top 5% is idealistic and should be your approach, but should not be your plan.  Your plan should include a 1/3 chance of failing out of school because those are the odds you face, and that is why it is important to go to another school.
5. Good luck.


not starting is not an option for me.  not at all.  I can still go to FIU in miami but im not going to go.  im starting now.  not sure of FIU's rank but im more worried about the international program than i am about anything else.    as for the study habits, i understand that, and thanks for the info.  I have been reading alot to get my ming prepared.  currently im moving all my stuff in my place right now, so i have been taking a few days off.  moving up to e-lansing tuesday.   but i have been studying and studying.  i might even be reading more than i need to, but thats what i do.  as for taking the LSAT again, not an option.     i will finish in 2.5 years whether i transfer or not.  as for the level of discussion, im pretty good at eliminating BS from relevant material.  banking is more about paying attention to trends and knowing how to work quickly and critically within regulations and rules.    on your own!   

2
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 02:44:59 PM »
i understand the criticism, trust me.  i got it the first time.   and I also understand a situation arising where just because you want to be something, doesnt mean you either will be or should be.   i get that, i have always got that.  And i am aware of the summer conditional programs and their purpose.  the fact that law schools use this ranking system which is flawed also creates more bias than the actual school.  Im sure i will understand exactly what everyone is saying once i start.   the only person i am worried about is myself.  and i believe that the attrition rate wont apply to me because i am and was never a terrible student.  I have to hold fast to the belief that the attrition rate is because those people that are morons just cant cut it.    if you cant tie your shoes and there is a test on tying your shoes, guess what, you will fail.  i wouldnt think that the curriculum isnt any more or less than anywhere else. its just as you said, the person is a moron.    

LAW IS HARD.   right?  well so is algebra...for me.   i failed every single algebra class i have ever been in.  yet i convinced my college advisor to allow me to take calc to by pass it, and i made an A    (took and dropped Alg 5 times in college)     my mind is geared differently.   I know i could handle any t-1 school, but my college GPA not my lsat scores are why i didnt get in.  i honestly dont think anyone even read my PS.  or they thought that it was so jacked that they didnt believe me!  (which i was afraid of)  I dug such a hole that it was damn near impossible to get out.  but i did. and because of it, i went into business for myself.  all of my cpa buddies got price waterhouse and deloite jobs and i got nada.  so i went to business for myself, and killed it!!   for years!   head injuries from car crash jacked up my school in later years, and got straight F's for a whole year straight, because i didnt realize i couldnt read anymore.  took time off, got fixed and replaced every F with an A (not a b or c but an A)   but cum GPA was in the *&^%!      admissions couldnt care less.    there is no excuse for getting an F.  so to *&^% school i go.  I deal with lawyers every day, and it was most of them that told me to go back to school to get my law degree.   which is what i was going to do when i was in school the first time.    life, fiance murdered, car accident..alot of *&^% screwed it up.   ive made well over a million dollars in the last 8 years, but im going back to school.  i graduated in 2000.  yet im judged on my grades when i was 24.  im 33 now.     fair or unfair, this is what it is.  

i did decent on my lsat dispite getting my car stolen the day before (really, dont laugh!  it screwed me right up!)   and although i did get into other schools, im going to cooley.    good bad or not, thats where im going.

now, i could care less about the later on shits, its the right nows that im worried about.  

thanks for the info regarding the study habits.....i do have one question....Comps in classes.  good or bad?  and with that, what is it that people are doing with them?  just typing notes?  entering the briefs or outlines?  since i have heard profs not liking notebooks in classes, how should one use them to their benefit?

thanks for the help to those that are giving it.

3
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 01:52:06 PM »

but it still doesnt make any sense though, that you say that because they are more liberal in their admissions policy, that it makes the school bad.    if you are saying that, then you are also saying that the level of education is garbage.  so if a school only allowed 10 people per term...that would be the best school?   regardless of level of education?



as far as level of education is concered, again, that was not the argument. the argument is that the level of education is that your education at a school like cooley is significatly lower than T1 school x because of the lower level of discussion/learning in the classroom, which is many times, if not most of the time, a product of your peers responses/comments etc..

but at the same time again, having never been there, you assume that it is. (bro trust me im not saying that it is on par at all!!   )

i think that that line of thinking at this point contributes to the perception.  many people associate alot of "unqualified" students + discussion = poor conversation/poor learning for all    which may be true.  but look at your lecture classes in college.  you know you had morons in there that were called on and rambled about nothing.  did that limit your education?  i would look towards the prof to actively navigate around those morons once they have outted themselves.   and you will have idealist in all classes that think the world should think like them and want to argue with everyone that doesnt.  T1 schools or otherwise.

4
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 01:41:56 PM »
ohhh absolutely!  i completely agree.  again, i havnt spent a single day in class, but im sure there is that dude, or chick that wont STFU in class, asks the  most stupid questions, but because of the setting, she screws it up for the rest of us, because she/he is wasting everyones time.   Or the prof keeps calling on that one person that he knows will give the wrong answer because he wants to prove a point..(he can always count on the dumbass in class to give the wrong answer so it makes him look super duper knowledgeable!)   i understand.   Possibly, it would serve the school better (since not too many people dispute its difficulty) to immediately place those students that didnt score very well, and are on the border or bubble from day one, on probation.  Im not sure if that would be discrimination or not, but if you set a specific admissions requirement, but allow many more people that are on the bubble academically or otherwise, that perhaps a letter of condition should be accompanied.   you scored a sub 150 ( and i say set it at 150 because thats the border between terrible and so-so) and whatever your GPA was..i dont know what matrix you use in this situation, but lower than that and the school places you on probation immediately.  after your first term, your probation is either lessened or removed.  the school sets your schedule, say no more than 9 hours or whatever regardless of full time or part time, and with the school walking you through it in this fashion, possibly it changes the reputation.  the same students still flunk out, the school still makes the money it was going to make, but since it is the level of BS students that cooley allows in that is making the rep so bad, then secluding these students from the outset, and introducing them slower into "GEN-POP" will raise the level of learning for all, and make the reputation alot better.

that would make a lot of sense to me.    if we are using your rational as to why the school is bad.  I havnt heard that perspective, and honestly didnt consider that.  so that makes alot of sense to me.

so then, as a help, and to a person that is not in classes yet, position myself for top 5%.  what is it that i need to do?  studying is a given!  but are groups better or worse?  are they like girls, you have to run through a few to find the one that a snug fit?   and even if you say, well you are a lost cause since you are going to cooley, then give me the tools i will need to be there so i can transfer?!     hows that.  im just trying to steer the comments from ragging and ridiculing to assistance.   (and telling me to kill myself or quit is not acceptable!)
 ;)

understand that we are all either will, or are going through the *&^% together.  if you can help your brother or sister, do it, if all you wanna do is crap all over them, then go hang yourself!

5
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 12:06:53 PM »
thore, thats an honest response.  again, i have not been to class yet, and yes if i am learning with (at best) questionable students, then that is a reason to be cautious.  its not not a matter of putting someones hopes high.  when you were a kid of say 9 and you said you wanted to be a fireman, but you didnt have any arms or legs, should everyone have come up to you telling you to stop!  you will be nothing better than a paperweight?!   see my point.  What it sounds like is that the L1 season is the most questionable because of the teaching method, but afterwards, it would be on par with any other school within its tier grouping plus or minus a few that are higher.

I understand the pecking order.  i know that Harvard business school is better than oklahoma state business school.   I know that oklahoma state physical therapy program is best in the nation..including harvard, if they have one.  so i understand.

and as to my pay, the reason i dont want to do financials like i do now is that I want to go back to japan, and without explaining the complexities involved, the road I am going may or may not pay the same as what i am making and or have been making, but it will get me out of this country.  My fluid understanding of what i do now, along with my legal degree, will assist me with some of the international work i will be doing.  and contrary to what you all may think, my prospects are well beyond the $150k mark.     again, it helps to know my background and reasons, along with prospects which none of you do.

thank you for your relevant response.  with all the stupid ones, i appreciate it.

but it still doesnt make any sense though, that you say that because they are more liberal in their admissions policy, that it makes the school bad.   if you are saying that, then you are also saying that the level of education is garbage.  so if a school only allowed 10 people per term...that would be the best school?   regardless of level of education?

i grew up overseas, and in my opinion, every school in the us: high school/primary and the like is garbage.  because i know my schools in japan were so much better....RANKED #1 in the WORLD!    my proof, the abysmal level of graduations, the courses offered and the fact that americans dont know where anything is let alone know capitols, have language skills, and have never been anywhere.    yet almost all of you came from that?  does that automatically make you an idiot because you went to elem/high school here in the US?  no! 

i think the fact that because cooley allows people in that shouldnt be, that you cannot consider the fact that there are people that go there, that could survive at any other school.   your flaw is your generalization without proof.     you go to court making a generalization like that without absolute proof and you will be eaten alive!

seems like people that go to cooley are more than likely to kill others-you

how do you figure?-judge

because they went to cooley, i mean c'mon?!-you

GTFOH!!!   judgement for the defendant-judge

6
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 11, 2008, 10:03:14 AM »
first of all, sentence structure, im on an internet forum.

second  i took the CPA exam in 2000  if you didnt understand that, then why didnt you ask me about the series 7 2005?

third, i bring up the point of money, because people are talking about the reason going to cooley is so bad is because they wont make anything when they graduate.   my point was that I make money now, and with my background, i will make money later.   Im not picking a school because i am going to try to work for BIGLAW when im done and that im seeking the $150+ salary coming out, I make that now.

as for why im going, im going because i am.   thats my biz.

first of all, i would like anyone that tells anyone else that it would be better for them to not go to law school at all, to also include when they went to cooley, where they ranked when they left (assuming they even went there)   or if you have never gone to cooley, where you go.   because as much as you all want to brag about the fact that you dont go to one school over another, im wondering why you are even at this thread?     you dont go, yet you have comments about it?   you have never gone, yet you have comments about it?   you will never go, yet you have comments about the people that do?

so im wondering what your motivation is.  is it to rag on those people you feel to be beneath you?  is it penis envy?   are you in the top 5% of your respective classes?   I bring up my previous history to detail that in certain arenas, some people are excellent at what they do.  I promise you that I could mop the floor with every single person on this forum and whom has ever been to this forum in the areas of forecasting and analysis with regard to banking and investments ( and I dont know who has ever been to this forum and really dont care)    yet, you people seem to think that my worth in life is based upon my school choice.  and your criterion is based upon how much money i will be able to make after i graduate, or lack thereof.   I point out that your reasoning is flawed because not only do i make more than most of you, but i will continue to.   I havn't worked for 2 months (granted without a law degree) and I know i have still made more than most of you will after you graduate.  does that matter?  not at all!

deflect all you want, my point is for all of you that have never gone to any school you rag on,  do not tell a person that has made a decision to go anywhere that you dont like, that it is better to not go to school at all, than it is to go there.    what motivates a person to show themselves to be a male private part like that and tell a person that?    I really dont get it.    Sports is one thing because its nonsensical, but when a person is chasing a dream, adding the pressure of "you might as well not go to school if you are going to go to cooley"  and you have never been there, know nobody there, and dont even know anyone 3 states over from it is just retarded to me.    but if thats how your parents raised you, if thats what you believe, and if thats how you plan to raise your kids to be, then good luck with that.

it would be better to not say a thing, maybe offer assistance on how to transfer from cooley, than it is to be a prick and tell a person they are stupid, a dumass, a moron, not worth anything....basically belittling people to make you feel good.     Thats just simply feminine hygiene product-ish to me and most people.

All of you can jump on me all you like, apparently none of you can read, because you keep harping on the same thing.   I have not praised cooley at all, i havnt even stepped into the place.     im just trying to got the few of you that are belittling the people that do go there.   

their admissions policy is OPEN.     answer this.  say all of a sudden, HLS decides to grant everyone that applies there a seat.    some say 10000 people.  and after the first term, of the 10000 l1's 9000 are booted.  after the second term another 300 are booted.   education doesnt change, the profs are the same, and they ended up with the same number of students they would have with the same LSAT averages and UGPA as they did before they made the move.  with a few people slipping through that were significantly lower.     then harvard (whom mind you is changing their standards with regards to lower income students being given free tuition undergrad) decides to do this again for the next 5 years.  Their reason for this is they are protesting the Bias of the USNWP ranking system,  so they like cooley decides to have an open admission policy.  but you still have  to make the grade.  HLS understands that employers also have this superficial bias, so they are giving more students the opportunity to also have HLS on their degree that ordinarily wouldnt.   and with this experiment, of the 10000 seats filled with L1's, 5000 are wack students by you all's standards  sub 3.0 ugpa and sub 160 lsat score.  of the 5000, 300 actually do a good job and finish in various percentiles.  does that make harvard immediately a garbage school?  do the people that attended HLS during those dates have an Asterisk by their name on their resume, like they are roger clemmons or something?  because you didnt go there, does that automatically make you better?    unless you are in the top "only you" percentile....you are an idiot to someone else too.   remember that.

i'll tell you what, like i said, i might transfer, i might not.  but if i do, ill keep everyone here, especially those douchebags that keep trying to clown others, where i go, and whether or not i find it difficult to make that move.



as for my grammar and spelling and punctuation and whatever......ummm, you can read it cant you.   and you can understand what im talking about, so it really doesnt matter what and how i misspell anything.    I guess there is a class in school, that im going to miss because im going to go to cooley that teaches you how to not misspell a word on an internet forum.   thats going to limit me forever in life.

7
Oklahoma City U / Re: OCU student question
« on: April 10, 2008, 09:22:46 PM »
i lived in okc....actually right down the street at the hemmingway, and i will tell you, OCU staff is killing the school.  a few years ago, it was a stellar school, now its terrible.   OKC in general just sucks.  there is nothing there, i live in florida now and about to move to michigan.  if it wasnt for having my own business, i would starve to death in okc.  your best bet is to graduate, and then get the hell out of oklahoma.  in fact I wouldnt even go to dallas.  although there is a good system for OCU grads down there.

if you plan on staying in OKC, yea you should have gone to OU.  if you plan on making money get out of oklahoma and you will be good.


8
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 10, 2008, 08:37:20 PM »
well when i researched, i did see the negatives that people said.  but knowing that most of the negatives that people say about things usually stem from their ignorance of that thing, i came to the conclusion that there was nothing about the quality of the education.  it was just the superficial attitudes about the prospects afterwards.  i guess there is a significant part about myself that i am leaving out, because i do not plan on working for big law like some of you hope to.  I deal in the financial world.  I am and will always be a banker.  I will be overseas after i finish, and although I may transfer and i may not, I will make Way more than the lousy $40k that most of you all seem to think i will be stuck with.    Thats not my road.   the criterion i had was education.  is cooley hard, sounds like it.  do they dump alot of students?  yup.  is the grading structure insane?  i heard it is.  is the bar passage low...its pretty average across the country...higher than some, lower than some.

look i took and passed my  CPA-2000   first shot!  all sections
                                                  series 7- 2005  first shot

the bar is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier.   

so even though i might transfer, and as difficult as it may be, i still hold on the the decision ive made to go there now, not waste time, and get my degree.     the research to this extent is what i was refering to when i said that i heard the negs after i decided to go.   I Grilled the Admissions people for a long time, and im sure i got on some list because i asked alot of questions.   so what.

either way, telling me how much of a dum ass makes the person calling me the dumass look more like the dumass.    im there, let me deal with the consequences.  ME.     if all else fails, i will go back to banking...and still make more than the T1 grads.   I make more than them now!  or 2 months ago.    so telling me im not going to make any money which is your argument doesnt apply to me.    sorry. 

9
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 10, 2008, 06:36:29 PM »
ok.  and thats not prob.   maybe i will be dissappointed.  the issue is not with me, its with you.  i could be making a colossal mistake!  i understand that.  and you have no idea how i am as a business owner, or accountant.  But thats neither here nor there.  again, the point i am making is that telling a person to not go to school regardless of what you feel about the school is asinine.   if you go to "ballin-outta-control" university, then great.  but telling a person that they are *&^% because they are going to a school that you dont like is stupid.    if you really cared, then you would make a statement like:   look bro, you are probably not going to like it there.  the level of education, the access to employment afterwards and the horrible ranking are going to limit you.  now i dont know what kind of student you are, but if you can keep your grades above everyone else's, id seriously look into putting as much effort you did trying to get into school into trying to get out of that one.

then the question of why comes out...

and you say, well as a current student, the Tier system, as unfair and as biased as it may be, is what and how you are judged.  because of the terrible reputation the school has earned over the years, it has an incredible impact on your prospects after graduating.  its almost close to graduating from a non accredited school in its acceptance around the nation.

then yadda yadda yadda.....

you think im trying to big up cooley and im not, the same could be said of about 20 other T4 school when compared to the t-1 schools some of you go to.     do more helping if you really care.  if you dont, then telling people that they are *&^% for going to a school you wouldnt dream of going to, AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED is kind of female dog-ish to me.

10
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: April 10, 2008, 06:10:40 PM »
not that it makes a difference, but i skipped Two grades in primary school, I played national team soccer on some of the under teams here in the 80's, I played football at oklahoma and soccer at Arizona state..I graduated high school with a 3.8 and got a 33 on my act.  and like i said, i was accepted at schools other than cooley.   As for making excuses, well ill forget i heard that....i think my situation and many others are something you clearly cannot judge.

and I never said that i wasnt going to transfer either, but i never said i was as well.    the obvious fact that you prove my point loudly states your ignorance.  you have no idea what i scored on my lsat, you assume that i did poorly because of where i am going.  you assume my judgement is poor because dispite being accepted to other schools, i still chose cooley.  and using an obvious logic trap, you still proved me to be dead correct.  and being that you cannot read, because i didnt say the top 25% at HLS or YLS i said bottom of the class.  and i said only 2 people from YLS and HLS each were among the top 25%.   you did not have a choice of any other T1 school, you only had those three to choose from.   

now being a successful business owner that i am/was, and regardless of where I went to school, you sir are clearly terrible at management and decision making.  this is something NO school can teach.  you either have it or you dont.   only fundamentals can be taught, and they are theory only.  which again proves my point.  for all your named schools, the one key factor is the person.  in this hypothetical exercise, you did terribly (of course you will say you didnt really participate)  but by trying to give an answer, you in fact put it to thought, meaning that you did.   and you clearly sucked at it.  What school did you do your undergrad at?  because i wanna steer people clear of that school; they obviously did a terrible job and i would want to make sure when i again put my practice back to work, that i dont hire anyone from your school.   the big difference between me and you, is you are a representative and proved that your knowledge was incomplete at best, where as in my example to you, you didnt have any representation.  you went off of bias.   you cant even follow instructions!      its obvious that you are hoping the T1 status of your school is going to get you a job, but i hope and pray that your mentor likes you, because as soon as they realize that you cannot follow instructions, im sure they will fire you, and probably not hire anyone from your school again.....right?

look, the point again i was making is telling a person to not go to school; to not follow their dream of being an attorney is a ass of a thing to do.  everyone likes to think where they go is the best, fine and good, but since you do not know the situation that led to the reason why anyone went to any school, you shouldnt tell a person to not go, just because they dont go to your class of school.   thats all im saying.

to be honest, i might transfer....i probably will.   and i probably could have gotten into a better school next year, but you know what, if i do start now, I am getting a year down, and if i transfer, i will not lose time, and still graduate on schedule.   I didnt apply to very many, and i only was rejected to one.  my reasons for going were not because i scored a 145 on my lsat...i scored much better than that.  but my reasons are my biz.   if you have gone, and you didnt like it, then great, im sure ill find out what that reason was, if it was educationally based.   opportunity wise as well, im sure ill fine out better.  No school wants their students to transfer so im sure ill get some friction when and if i do transfer.  but as a person that hasnt stepped foot in class yet, speaking to people that have never stepped foot in the damn state of michigan....id STFU, because it makes you sound really ridiculous!

with my background, i dont plan on being anywhere other than top 5% (not being cocky, just thats my steelo)  and when I transfer, I dont plan on being anywhere but in the top 5% of that school.   and if you think that because im going to cooley for the time being, that that excludes me from ever scoring higher than that at any other school, HLS, YLS, or otherwise, makes you sound like a feminine hygiene product!   plain and simple.

Pages: [1] 2