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Messages - brightline

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51
Transferring / Re: Visiting
« on: October 22, 2007, 04:23:01 PM »
DC is a tough market.

DC offices for major law firms have higher grade requirements than other cities. Government jobs are also very,very competitive. I don't know much about non-profit jobs but I would assume they are very competitive judging by the educational profiles of the people some of these orgs hire. I would rule all of these out unless you have top grades and/or are on law review.

Note that I'm at a T14 and this information comes from experience in applying for jobs in the DC market and talking with a career counselor.

As for small firms in the DC, maybe. But you will have to do some serious networking and shouldn't expect to be hired until you pass the bar.

If you are set on visiting, and UF permits you to do so, you may want to throw an app at American. A student at my old tier 2 is visiting there now, and they had lackluster 1L and 2L grades...it's possible that they had connections to the school administration or something, I really don't know.

Right now I would focus on getting good grades and looking for summer work in the DC area.



52
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: help with torts
« on: October 22, 2007, 11:59:36 AM »
LEEWS explains how to do an IRAC style answer, in the most simple, efficient way by going through baby steps.

I did it during the first two weeks of law school and it did not confuse me.

I'd argue that it's so simple and straightforward, that if you get confused, the problem is you, not the LEEWS program.

53
Transferring / Re: Visiting
« on: October 22, 2007, 11:02:02 AM »

1. Go to your career office and ask for a list of alums in the market you want. Contact them for informational interviews.

2. Check martindale and see if there are alums in the market you want. You may be surprised where some alums are working.

3. Consider joining the student division of the state or city bar association where you want to work. Try to get out to events during winter break.

4. Set up an internship this summer (even if it is unpaid - get a second paid job working anywhere if you have to) in the market you want. If you have ties to that market, it may help. Again, go to your career office. This is probably your best bet, since schools don't often have a lot of spots for visiting students and there is no guarantee you'll get one.

The above are things you can do NOW / soon to hedge your bets. You won't be able to apply for visiting spots until next fall. If you are smart, you will hedge your bets and not bank on visiting.


When I said "recruiting events", I meant on-campus interviews, which are not the same thing as job fairs. Most job fairs allow anyone to sign up, the same is not true for OCI. People have posted questions before about visiting students participating in OCI, so I was just trying to make it clear that it isn't likely.

Again, I suggest you get comfortable with your school and realize that you may have to end up working in the market where the school is.

Where is your school and where is your "dream market"?

What kind of school (rank) are you attending now?

54
Transferring / Re: Visiting
« on: October 22, 2007, 08:02:52 AM »
Definitely check with your school on its policies...some schools are making visiting policies more restrictive because they lose revenue when students pay another school tuition 3L year.

Also, if your school is in the "wrong market" why did you attend in the first place? You should try to get more comfortable with your school. Even if you do visit, there is no guarantee you'll get a job outside your current school's region, although it may increase your networking opportunities. At most schools, visiting students aren't allowed to participate in recruiting events for the school's "home students"...you'll pretty much be on your own.

55
Transferring / Re: Whent to Apply?
« on: October 22, 2007, 07:56:23 AM »
One more thing to keep in mind:

If you're worried about competition, you should know that 2L year in general is not as outwardly competitive as 1L year. This is because the curve loosens up at most schools and because employers tend to most focus on 1L grades, not 2L and 3L grades.

As far as the atmosphere at a particular school, I really think you need to try to talk to people who transferred there last year instead of relying on rumors, if and when the time comes where it is appropriate to do this.

56
Transferring / Re: Whent to Apply?
« on: October 21, 2007, 12:51:25 PM »
The point I was trying to make is that worrying about differences in things like location, weather, student body, etc. are trite for most people. Unless you have extenuating personal circumstances that make it impossible to attend a particular school, you will go to the best school you get into as a transfer or you are a fool. If you decide not to apply to certain top 15 schools for trite reasons, should you have the grades, you are only hurting yourself.

In general, the top 15 are worth it. You'll survive at any one of them even if you hate the location or the weather - you can pretty much go wherever you want location-wise afterwards because they are national. The top 25 or so type schools like Fordham, GW, BC etc. are more regional ( and some are more regional than others) and may or may not be worth it depending on your personal situation. The app fees are really nothing in the end, so you can try talking to other people who transferred after you've been admitted and decide whether or not to go then. I did end up excluding one top 25 when I applied, but that was only because the school was very,very geared toward a particular market that I didn't want to be stuck in should I decide I wanted to go somewhere else.

I didn't get into my top choice as a transfer and I'm sure lots of others didn't either.Should you end up applying, I promise you will be surprised by some of the results with re: to getting in or not getting in. There are upsides and downsides to my new school (as there are with every school), but the difference in job prospects and some other things make it worth it in the end.

As for having some pride/investment in your current school, I'd agree. Even after you leave you may end up using an old prof as a reference or asking old classmates for help with something. Oh, and don't even think about saying anything bad about your old school in school application materials and job interviews,etc. It will just make you look bad.

57
Transferring / Re: Whent to Apply?
« on: October 20, 2007, 06:42:03 PM »
1. Your undergrad grades don't matter. If you look at the database in the transferapps group you'll see that many people who transferred had low undergrad grades.

2. LSAT is not a consideration for any of those schools unless their policies have changed since last year. You need top Law School grades, period.

3. Get over yourself. You're not "considering" anything until you have at least 1 semester of grades in that merit even applying. If you do get good grades, I suggest you get beyond worrying about things like weather, student body, and the like. You can look at those things IF and WHEN you have multiple transfer acceptances in hand. The transfer application process can be as unpredictable as the regular application process. At every school, the top students think about transferring, especially as of late since there is much more talk about it than before. If you want to maximize your chances, apply to as many top schools as possible.

58
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: help with torts
« on: October 20, 2007, 04:51:17 PM »
If I were you, I would do LEEWS pronto. You don't need to know anything to do the program and they shouldn't confuse you. That said, make sure you actually do the exercises while listening and practice the methods before exams. Passively listening to the tapes while jogging or whatever is useless.

Glannon's E+E for torts is pretty clear. There is also a detailed section on Torts exams. If you are trying to use it as reference to look up things instead of going through the chapters deliberately and writing out answers to the questions, AND then checking them - that is where the problem lies.

Merely "having" study aids isn't going to help if you don't use them properly. The E+E and LEEWS are great materials if you take advantage of them. Incidentally, Torts is probably the easiest law school class you'll ever take. Passively sitting in class and hoping you'll absorb the material like you're back in College isn't going to work.

Also, you might want to ditch the study group until you come to a clearer understanding on your own. Most 1L study groups are just the blind leading the blind and a complete waste of time and energy.

59
Transferring / Re: Whent to Apply?
« on: October 20, 2007, 04:37:53 PM »
The only way your LSAT retake will matter AT ALL is if you drop out before exams, then reapply in a year or two. It might matter slightly if you end up applying to one of the very few law schools that say they consider LSAT scores for transfer student applications.

For most schools, your LSAT retake is essentially time wasted. You need to focus on your first semester exams right now and forget about everything else. You can explore your transfer options over winter break by contacting the schools and doing more research. Hopefully you'll have grades by early January and you'll know whether or not transferring is even a possibility. If it is, you can also ask for rec letters at that point if you want.

You can check this out during winter break also:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/

Again, grades are pretty much it as far as transferring goes so focus your efforts there. There isn't really anything else you can do at this point to increase your chances.

60
Transferring / Re: Lateral Transfers
« on: October 18, 2007, 04:34:42 PM »
If you can't transfer to a top school, go where you can get in-state tuition.

Transferring to a tier 2 in a big city isn't really going to improve your employment prospects.

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