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Messages - Lindbergh

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21
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Another Tier 3/4 question
« on: October 01, 2008, 08:03:34 PM »
Everyone always cites employment data from this or that source when exhorting prospective students to "go to a T14 or else". The problem with this horrible, shallow analysis is that employment data for T14 schools is somewhat skewed. Many who attend T14s already have a job upon graduation and they had it from day one. Therefore, a true analysis of the employment prospects of T14 grads would have to eliminate those whose family connections afford them opportunities that the broad cross-section of law grads do not have (assuming the analysis was simply for those students, like me, who do not come from a priveleged background to determine which school to attend). If this type of analysis were done, my HYPOTHESIS is that the T14 schools are marginally better than other schools and not worth the debt load.

Don't be silly.  Family connections have almost nothing to do with who gets into law schools.  It's 90% LSAT+GPA, for starters.

If you review placement stats for T14 grads, you'll find almost none work with family or family-connected law firms.  Even those T14 students with lawyer parents will generally have far better options than working with the family firm.

22
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Another Tier 3/4 question
« on: October 01, 2008, 07:58:27 PM »
1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

...

Don't be stupid.

I don't think it can be helped. Rule number 1 of LSD, pull salery numbers out of your ass for schools you don't go to in regions you have never worked then call them facts.  ::)

Mattheis, you have some good insights into finding work when you're not at a top school.  That said, I know tons of people who didn't go to top schools, didn't end up at the top of their class, and therefore ended up struggling to find any kind of work whatsoever.  I personally know well-adjusted, studious, reasonably bright people who ended up taking jobs paying under $35K because those were the only jobs available.

I'm speaking from what I've personally witnessed with actual people.  If people don't want to believe this is the reality for many students, that's fine by me.  But they may face a rude awakening once they graduate if they don't recognize this reality.

Bottom line, if you're not at a T14/25, or not at the top of your class, you're unlikely to get a job through OCI.  At that point, once you're searching on your own, you're often happy to take any kind of legal job, even if it doesn't pay that much.  Not sure why this is considered particularly controversial.

23
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Another Tier 3/4 question
« on: October 01, 2008, 07:53:38 PM »
1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

...

Don't be stupid.

Sorry if the truth bothers you. :P

24
i.e) Only when behaviors become typical among an animal population can we conclude that genetic alteration has occurred in that variety of species.

I would negate it as "We can conclude that genetic alteration has occurred even when bahaviors have not yet become typical among the animal population."

I get there just by examining the meaning of the statement, and then trying to state the logical opposite.

25
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Importance of the very most recent preptests?
« on: October 01, 2008, 06:44:06 PM »
Diagnostics are dumb in general, in my opinion -- it's hard to get a sense of where you stand until you've spent some time understanding the exam in general, and your initial score can be very unrepresentative of your final score.  I therefore find taking a timed diagnostic unnecessarily limiting and discouraging from a pyschological perspective.

You do it so you can brag about how much your score went up.

Honestly, I think test prep courses push these so THEY can brag about how much your score went up. 

I never have students do this if I can help it.

26

So yes, the negation of a conditional is always a conjunction of the antecedent and the negation of the consequent. Which makes sense, because all a conditional is telling you is that it can never be the case that both the antecedent is true and the consequent is false. If you have the negation of that, then it means the antecedent is true, but the consequent is still false.

Why didn't you just say this up front?  It's all so simple now!!!   :D

27
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Terrified of the LSAT
« on: October 01, 2008, 06:36:32 PM »
I'll be in Tdot for Nuit Blanche actually.  I haven't seen my girl in aboot a month though, so I'll probably be holed up with her somewhere for most of the night.  We'll party another weekend I come up.

No worries. I'm going to Nuit Blanche with my crowd also. We'll probably be in yorkville first though.

Next time for sure.

Hey Thales, I like your tar. I got to drive an R8 last weekend when I was at the dealer to get some stuff done to my car. OMG that car is badass (and sounds incredable) they had to detail the interior to get rid of my drool stains.

Nice. You'd like my car then ;).

The Audi R8 is nice, I've been seeing more of them around the city. it's features remind me of the Lamborghini Gallardo. Audi's A series isn't bad, like a cheap alternative to a BMW. Performance and luxury.

As far as sports cars are concerned though, I'm more of a Ferrari fan. Once you see that Enzo, there's no turning back.

As an italian gal, I am of course partial to ferrari, lambo is nice, but the lines of the ferrari, and yes, def the Enzo are just amazing.  And the exhaust and roar of the engine gives me butterflies!

So do you have C-5?

I drive a Honda Civic baby!! Yeah!!

Hehe, just kidding. I drive a measly BMW 650i. Not quite the R8 level just yet.
Still nice! Gotta love a car with balls and luxury that will warm them up on a winter day! (heated seats)

I have a miata which I drive in autocross events in my local region SCCA, used to drag race it with a 75 shot of nos, but that became costly from all the damage.  My daily driver is a lincoln ls.

You sound like a really, really cool girl.

28
Will Berkeley be back at 12 anytime soon?

29
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Another Tier 3/4 question
« on: September 30, 2008, 10:44:53 PM »
the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.


I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many of them did.

I can't help but wonder what somebody did (or didn't) do to put themselves in that position.


1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

30
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Harvard adopts Pass/Fail grading system
« on: September 30, 2008, 10:40:30 PM »
Why not eliminate standards entirely?  Wouldn't that improve pedagogical excellence even more?  :P

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